"Once Saved, Always Saved"

Linda64 · May 22, 2008

steaver said:

they already make perfect sense to me and I have eternal assurance. I do not need "salvation of the soul" to cause me to behave in any other way then the scriptures command me to behave. So my question remains unanswered, how would my life change if i believed in this? I personally know the lives of my brother and his pastor who are dead set on this view and from what i observe they are not to awful concerned about their own possiblity of outer darkness (if you know what i mean).

Tell me how can I know for sure I will not be cast into outer darkness? What is the standard? Be holy as He is holy? I break one commandment and I am guilty of breaking the whole law. How many good deeds will assure me a position in the Mellinnium?

God Bless! :thumbs:
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Amen Bro Steaver! You hit the nail on the head. Our standard is God's Word...we are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)

steaver · May 22, 2008

Amen Bro Steaver! You hit the nail on the head. Our standard is God's Word...we are "kept by the power of God" (1 Peter 1:5)
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Hey , what's up with you guys? I tried to pm you two awhlie back and it said you were banned. But now you are back. I couldn't figure out what you would have gotten banned for, I always thought your post were pretty clean.

God Bless! :thumbs:

kevin hobby · May 22, 2008

steaver said:

they already make perfect sense to me and I have eternal assurance.
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...Okay...

steaver said:

I do not need "salvation of the soul" to cause me to behave in any other way then the scriptures command me to behave.
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???What statement did I make to warrant such a response???

steaver said:

Tell me how can I know for sure I will not be cast into outer darkness? What is the standard? Be holy as He is holy? I break one commandment and I am guilty of breaking the whole law. How many good deeds will assure me a position in the Mellinnium?
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"Wash thyself therefore, and anoint thee, and put thy raiment upon thee"

...Wash thyself therefore...

"Once Saved, Always Saved" # 46
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=49707&page=5

...Question: Why does John state "If we (Christians) confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us (Christians) our sins, and to cleanse us (Christians) from all unrighteousness"...

"And Aaron and his sons you shall bring to the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and shall wash (Septuagint = "louseis" a one time complete bathing of the entire body before entering the priesthood) them with water" (Exodus 29)

"For Aaron and his sons shall wash (Septuagint = "nipsetai" a continuous washing of parts of the body extending the full duration of their priesthood) their hands and their feet thereat" (Exodus 30)

...Answer: "Jesus saith to him, He that is washed (Perfect Tense: "leloumenos" having been completely washed) needeth not save to wash (Aorist Tense and Infinitive: "nipsasthai" to wash a part of the body) his feet, but is clean every whit"...

...and anoint thee...

"Filling of the Spirit --- What is it?" # 72
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=48135&page=8

...be filled with the Spirit...
...Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord...
...Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ...(Ephesians 5)

...Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom...
...teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord...
...And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him...(Colossians 3)

"be filled with the Spirit" = "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly"

John 6:63
"It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life"

Revelation 19:13
"he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God"

...and put thy raiment upon thee...

Be "arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness [lit. righteous acts] of saints" "therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife"

"we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them"

...So there you have it, confess your sins, let the word of Christ dwell in you richly and remain faithful, just patiently endure, the good works will automatically emanate out of your faithfulness...

"If we suffer [lit., 'patiently endure'], we shall also reign with him: if we deny him [relative to patient endurance, i.e., if we do not patiently endure], he also will deny us [relative to His reign, i.e., we will not reign with Him]."

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

kevin hobby said:

...I wasn't stating that as my position, I was simply stating what that position is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perseverance_of_the_saints

...Salvation, as presented in Scripture, is spoken of in more than one tense and as can be observed, I've already touched upon two of these tenses (comparatively past and future) within my previous posts, here are two verses to demonstrate...

(PAST) All Christians have been saved...
"For by grace are ye saved [lit. ‘you have been saved’] through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." (Eph. 2:8, 9)

(FUTURE) Some Christians are about to be saved...
"Are they [angels] not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of [lit. ‘for the sake of the ones about to inherit’] salvation?" (Heb. 1:14)

...Scripture appears to categorize all unbelievers using the word "soulical" from the Greek word "psychikos" which is derived from the word "psychē" having to do with the soul/life...Psuchikos is the "natural" or "soulical" life (self-life) which man has in common with the animal kingdom. Below the word is translated as ["the natural" man]...

1 Corinthians 2:12-14
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

...In other words, the natural man (with a dead spirit) sees the Word of God as foolishness, simply because his spirit is dead and therefore he can only understand the letter of the matter and not the deeper spirit of the matter. Attempting to show a soulical human, spiritual truth, can be compared to attempting to do the same with an intelligent animal (because animals are dichotomous, ie. possess only body and soul), it simply can't be done. For example all of the Historical events given with in the Tanakh are not only actual events which occurred in time, but each detail of those events outline spiritual truths, the natural man ("dead in trespasses and sins" Eph. 2:1) only sees Historical events but an individual who has "passed from death unto life" (John 5:24) is in a position to truly receive the spiritually discerned Word of God...

...There was a land out before them and there is a land out before us, many of them fell in the wilderness on the right side of the blood though short of the goal of their calling and many of us will fall in the wilderness on the right side of the blood though short of the goal of our calling...

1 Corinthians 9

24Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain.

...notice, a prize, not a gift...

25And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they do it to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible.

...notice that striving is necessary in order to obtain a crown (rule and reign)...for example one doesn’t earn a gift (salvation by grace through faith), but one has to earn a prize (a crown)...

26I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air:

27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

...notice that Paul (a saved individual) is stating that it is possible that he could be “a castaway”...this is from the Greek word “adokimos” and it means “not approved”...remember that being approved or unapproved is, in this context, in reference to a prize, more specifically, a crown...

1 Corinthians 10

1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

...notice that:

all were under the cloud
all passed through the sea
all were baptized
all did eat the same spiritual meat
all did drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ...

5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

...notice that many of the ones who had drank of Christ were overthrown in the wilderness, on the right side of the blood, but short of the goal of their calling (an inheritance the land out ahead)...

6Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.

...notice that these things were our examples. ("examples" = ”typos”, pronounced tü’-pos, from which we gain our English word “types")...

7Neither be ye idolaters, as were some of them; as it is written, The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play.

8Neither let us commit fornication, as some of them committed, and fell in one day three and twenty thousand.

9Neither let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed of serpents.

10Neither murmur ye, as some of them also murmured, and were destroyed of the destroyer.

11Now all these things happened unto them for examples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

...notice again, that all these things happened unto them for examples. (all these things happened unto them for types)...

12Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.
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That is a rather interesting interpretation, OSAS driven I suspect. Your use of the "right side of the blood" gives away your position. Read that last passage again. They were not on the right side of the blood. They were idolaters, fornicators and murmurers, such as these shall not enter into the Kingdom of
Heaven. They are examples for us, if we likewise do not trust in Christ, the end will be the same.

Linda64 · May 22, 2008

steaver said:

Hey , what's up with you guys? I tried to pm you two awhlie back and it said you were banned. But now you are back. I couldn't figure out what you would have gotten banned for, I always thought your post were pretty clean.

God Bless! :thumbs:
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Check your PM box...the answers are there

kevin hobby · May 22, 2008

Butch5 said:

That is a rather interesting interpretation, OSAS driven I suspect. Your use of the "right side of the blood" gives away your position. Read that last passage again. They were not on the right side of the blood. They were idolaters, fornicators and murmurers, such as these shall not enter into the Kingdom of
Heaven. They are examples for us, if we likewise do not trust in Christ, the end will be the same.
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"Once Saved, Always Saved" #41
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=49707&page=5

...The passover lamb was then given to "all the congregation of Israel" and "the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel" were to kill the passover lamb "in the evening. And they shall take of the blood, and strike it on the two side posts and on the upper door post of the houses", concerning which blood, God proceeded to state,"when I see the blood, I will pass over you" "And the children of Israel went away, and did as the LORD had commanded Moses and Aaron, so did they"...

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

kevin hobby said:

...That's what people tell me, though, it's not what Scripture tells me...

"Bride of Christ question" Post #8
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=48942

The first man, The first Adam and his bride were to rule the earth together
Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth…

Before the bride came forth, The first man, The first Adam was put to sleep and his side was opened
Gen 1:21 And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;

The first man, The first Adams bride was built from a small portion of his body
Gen 1:22 And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.

...moving on...

Abraham sent his servant into a far country to procure a bride for his son from his family
Gen 24:2-4 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh: And I will make thee swear by the LORD, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell: But thou shalt go unto my country, and to my kindred, and take a wife unto my son Isaac.

The wife and her damsels ride the 10 (a number of completion) camels of the servant and meet the son halfway
Gen 24:61-63 And Rebekah arose, and her damsels, and they rode upon the camels, and followed the man: and the servant took Rebekah, and went his way. And Isaac came from the way of the well Lahairoi; for he dwelt in the south country. And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide: and he lifted up his eyes, and saw, and, behold, the camels were coming.

Only the wife possessed a vail with which to cover herself
Gen 24:65-67 For she had said unto the servant, What man is this that walketh in the field to meet us? And the servant had said, It is my master: therefore she took a vail, and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all things that he had done. And Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent, and took Rebekah, and she became his wife; and he loved her: and Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death.

...moving on...

Ruth washed herself, anointed herself, and clothed herself with proper garments before going forth to meet Boaz on his threshing floor at midnight with a view to becoming his wife
Ruth 3:3-11 Wash thyself therefore, and anoint thee, and put thy raiment upon thee, and get thee down to the floor: but make not thyself known unto the man, until he shall have done eating and drinking. And it shall be, when he lieth down, that thou shalt mark the place where he shall lie, and thou shalt go in, and uncover his feet, and lay thee down; and he will tell thee what thou shalt do. And she said unto her, All that thou sayest unto me I will do. And she went down unto the floor, and did according to all that her mother in law bade her. And when Boaz had eaten and drunk, and his heart was merry, he went to lie down at the end of the heap of corn: and she came softly, and uncovered his feet, and laid her down. And it came to pass at midnight, that the man was afraid, and turned himself: and, behold, a woman lay at his feet. And he said, Who art thou? And she answered, I am Ruth thine handmaid: spread therefore thy skirt over thine handmaid; for thou art a near kinsman. And he said, Blessed be thou of the LORD, my daughter: for thou hast shewed more kindness in the latter end than at the beginning, inasmuch as thou followedst not young men, whether poor or rich. And now, my daughter, fear not; I will do to thee all that thou requirest: for all the city of my people doth know that thou art a virtuous woman.

And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. For many are called, but few are chosen ["eklektoi" lit. few are called out]. (Matthew 22:11-14)

If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection ["exanastasin" lit. out-resurrection] of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 3:11-14)

...All of the Body is saved, but the Bride is called out of the Body at the Judgment Seat of Christ...This is why the 24 elders cast their crowns before the throne after the JSOC has occurred (it took place in Rev. 1-3)...The 24 elders represent two-thirds of the multitudinous host of angles which had originally been placed under lucifer (he, being the, at that time and remaining to this day, anointed cherub over this earth) before his fall (before man was created), but refused to follow in his rebellion, therefore necessitating that the heavenly government in relation to this earth be divinely reestablished (ie. "3 sets of 12" instead of only 1 set, thus constituting a divine perfection with in the government)...lucifer's rebellion also necessitated that he be replaced (As Saul) and Christ (As David) with His faithful, will soon be established in place of the current principalities, the authorities, the world-rulers of the darkness of this age, the spiritual things of the evil in the heavenly places...For unto the angels hath he not put in subjection the world to come...Thus, satan is only the god of this age and he knows this, that is why he is blinding the minds of the unbelieving lest the the good news of the glory of the Christ who is the image of God, should shine unto them (ie. the good news centering around when Christ "khristos" meaning "the anointed" shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works ie. the Son of man coming in his kingdom)...
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That's what you believe?

standingfirminChrist · May 22, 2008

kevin, if we wanted to read the junk you are pushing, we could read your exact same posts on agabus.

Are you trolling?

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

Trotter said:

Thankfully God is not as fickle as man. Instead of a ring, He gives us eternity. We may turn our backs on Him, but He is the only One who could release us from that marriage... and He will not do it.

If salvation could be laid down and taken back up like a coat, Jesus died in vain. Obviously, if this were the case, His blood would be insufficient to keep us saved. If His blood cannot do the job, we have no hope whatsoever.

Salvation is by grace, purchased by the blood of Christ. If it depends on us, it is of works and not of God. There is only one salvation that actually saves man, and it is the salvation wrought and bought by Christ.
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Hi Trotter,

Can a person have eternal life if their sins are not forgiven?

kevin hobby · May 22, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

kevin, if we wanted to read the junk you are pushing, we could read your exact same posts on agabus.
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...Be my guest...

http://agabus.com/index.php/forums

standingfirminChrist · May 22, 2008

You are carrying your Mercy Eliminated posts from another forum into this one.

ME is a heretical doctrine and is not embraced here.

steaver · May 22, 2008

Steaver:Tell me how can I know for sure I will not be cast into outer darkness? What is the standard? Be holy as He is holy? I break one commandment and I am guilty of breaking the whole law. How many good deeds will assure me a position in the Mellinnium?
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See? No answer.

Hey, give me the "it's not how close you can get to a line, but rather stay far from it and you will be just fine". Or, "you are asking the wrong questions".

God Bless! :thumbs:

kevin hobby · May 22, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

You are carrying your Mercy Eliminated posts from another forum into this one.

ME is a heretical doctrine and is not embraced here.
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...Here's another site...

http://www.theoblogian.org/Arlen-Chitwood-and-Soul-Salvation.aspx

???Why is ME heretical???

...Anything opposed to OSAS seems heretical to me. Our works have nothing whatsoever to do with the matter...

standingfirminChrist · May 22, 2008

Because it is contrary to the Word of God. It is what Paul warned against in Galatians 1:8,9. It is 'another gospel'

kevin hobby · May 22, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

Because it is contrary to the Word of God. It is what Paul warned against in Galatians 1:8,9. It is 'another gospel'
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"But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ"

???What good news came unto Paul by the revelation of Jesus Christ???

"fellowheirs, and of the same body"

"Once Saved, Always Saved" # 51
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=49707&page=6

(one must be a family member first because inheritance as seen in scripture is always a family matter).

Numbers 27
8And thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a man die, and have no son, then ye shall cause his inheritance to pass unto his daughter.
9And if he have no daughter, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his brethren.
10And if he have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his father's brethren.
11And if his father have no brethren, then ye shall give his inheritance unto his kinsman that is next to him of his family, and he shall possess it: and it shall be unto the children of Israel a statute of judgment, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Romans 8
17And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

...Inheritance as seen in scripture is also referred to as a reward (not a gift)...

Colossians 3
23And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;
24Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
25But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.

...Notice also that just as the engrafted word is able to save your souls/life [psychē] (James 1:21), it is also able to give you an inheritance...

Acts 20
32And now, brethren, I commend you to God, and to the word of his grace, which is able to build you up, and to give you an inheritance among all them which are sanctified.

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

DHK said:

The choice at the moment of salvation is receive or reject Christ. That is a one time offer. Once saved, one can never be lost again, no matter what sin he committed. Was David lost when he committed adultery and murder? If David had died before Nathan had reached him would he have gone to heaven? Believers still have free will after they are saved--the free will to do evil as well as good. If they do evil will they go to heaven, even if they have a heart attack and find not the time to repent?
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Hi DHK,

It is not a one time offer. The believing spoken of in Scripture is a present tnese continuos belief, not a one time belief and its a done deal. In order to have eternal life you must continuously believe in Christ. If you turn away then you away then you are no longer "in Christ" and therefore do not have eternal life.
Sin does not separate one from Christ, however the attitude that leads to sin can separate on from Christ.

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

standingfirminChrist said:

One who is saved will not 'stop believing in God.' That is an impossibility! God's Spirit seals His own and testifies of Christ to those that are His.

So one cannot stop believing in God who is saved.
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Luke 8:13 ( KJV ) 13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

Butch5 · May 22, 2008

Lyndie said:

But see, thats what I don't understand. Once saved, we are to represent Christ, who is sinless and perfect, so if in The Spirit we can't stop believing, then why can't we stop sinning under that same power?
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Lyndie you are correct in your understanding, notice this verse, Jesus says they believed for a while and then fell away. OSAS is not true.

Luke 8:13 ( KJV ) 13They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.

standingfirminChrist · May 22, 2008

Notice that verse.

Why did they fall away? Because they had no root. Their belief was not a saving belief.

They weren't saved in the first place! It is not that they lost their salvation.

Lyndie · May 22, 2008

Then what is a 'saving belief' comparing to a 'non-saving belief'?

"Once Saved, Always Saved"

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