One Nation under Allah?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by LadyEagle, Jan 9, 2004.

  1. LadyEagle

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  2. Dan Todd

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    I suggest that we eliminate Allah - you can't blaspheme what is not there!

    Dan
     
  3. blackbird

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    "And the Philistines took the ark of God, and brought it from Ebenezer unto Ashdod. When the Philistines took the ark of God, they brought it into the house of Dagon, and set it by Dagon. And when they of Ashdod arose early on the morrow, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the earth before the ark of the Lord. And they took Dagon, and set him in his place again. And when they arose early on the morrow morning, behold, Dagon was fallen upon his face to the ground before the Ark of the Lord; And the head of Dagon and both the palms of his hands were cut off upon the threshold: only the stump of Dagon was left to him.:---1Samuel 5:1-4

    One of these days---the worshippers of Islam are all gonna look---and just like those Philistines---Allah is gonna be headless and handless before the face of the Ark of God!!!

    Headless means---he can't think like the Ark can and does!
    Handless means---he can't put into practice what he's thinking like the Ark can and does!!

    The way I figure--you put Allah and Jesus(the only and one true Ark of the Lord!!) side by side------and one of 'um is gonna fall down upon his face before the other!!!

    And guess who it ain't gonna be??? [​IMG] [​IMG]

    Brother David
     
  4. Johnv

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    The phrase "One Nation Under God" does not refer to any specific religion or creed. If it did, it would violate Amendment I of the Constitution. It doesn't refer to Allah any more or less than to Jahweh.

    If some privately funded group wants to spend their private money on a private study, go ahead, let 'em. It won't change the aforementioned funamentally Constitutional principle.
     
  5. massdak

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    would you agree that if we do not hold that one nation under God is not specifically the God of the bible then the constitution is up held by a false god. would you agree? you seem to like the fact that the god mentioned in america is not the Christian God but a god to all religions.
     
  6. rbrent

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    Johnv says:


    Would you be so kind as to quote something from The Federalist Papers or anything from the writings of the Founding Fathers or the Signers of the Declaration of Independence, which supports your incredible statement?

    I don't recall ever reading anything written by the men who founded this country, that indicates their concept of God included Allah - the moon god of the middle east.

    And how you arrived at that interpretation of the First Amendment baffles me.
     
  7. Artimaeus

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    No, but it does refer to a specific God. If it merely referred to some sort of generic concept of diety then men would not have risked (and lost) their lives and their wealth and their families. If it merely referred to some sort of generic concept of diety then I would renounce my patriotism immediately.
     
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I am confused. Where does "One nation under God" fit into the Declaration of Independence, Constitution, Federalist Papers, or any other founding documents? I thought it was added to money around 1900 and to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 50's.

    Now as to the issue of prohibiting blasphemy against Allah, I don't think even the True God has that protection under the Constitution. To give that protection only to Allah would be a clear violation of the First Amendment. This appears to be the issue. There seems to be a clear dichotomy between how worshippers of Allah are given different protection than worshippers of Jehovah God. No one's religious practise should be restricted per the first amendment, but that status seems to be applying more to Muslims than Christians.
     
  9. mioque

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    "If it merely referred to some sort of generic concept of diety then I would renounce my patriotism immediately."
    I thought us baptists weren't supposed to be all that patriotic?

    "would you agree that if we do not hold that one nation under God is not specifically the God of the bible then the constitution is up held by a false god. would you agree?"
    I would say that the God mentioned in the US constitution is left deliberatly vague by the (brilliant, cynical, both?) politicians who wrote the thing.
    They probably hoped that everybody who read the thing (at that moment Jews, Deïsts and a very diverse bunch of Protestants some of whom believed that the denomination next door worshipped a false God on par with Allah) thought it referred to their God.
    On the other hand it's not my constitution so what do I know. [​IMG]
     
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    I would say that the God mentioned in the US constitution is left deliberately vague by the (brilliant, cynical, both?) politicians who wrote the thing.

    God is never mentioned in the US Constitution.
    Funny how the "Christian" US Constitution never mentions God but the there is a move in secular Europe to included Gd in the EU Constitution isn't it.
     
  11. mioque

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    "God is never mentioned in the US Constitution. "
    See! what do I know. [​IMG]
    On the other hand there is probably some important early American government document floating around that mentions God. [​IMG]

    "Funny how the "Christian" US Constitution never mentions God but the there is a move in secular Europe to included Gd in the EU Constitution isn't it. "
    There is indeed a movement going on to that effect. They aren't making any headway at the moment with either the constitution or the effort to get God mentioned. :rolleyes: [​IMG]

    Interesting what if question. If tomorrow the USA would get a brand new constitution, would there be a movement in the US asking for God being mentioned? And if so, would there be a sub-movement demanding it is the God of the Bible? And if so, would there be a sub-sub-movement demanding it is the God of the KJV, explicitly not Allah and not the God of the papist whore of Babylon?
     
  12. baptistteacher

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    In spite of modern reconstructionists of History, Deism was not the primary force behind the founding of the American Republic. It was Evangelical Protestantism and Baptists that led the way in planting the seeds and the formation of this Nation.

    As for early American Documents referring to God, we could start with the Declaration of Independence.
    And even referring back to the Magna Carta of England (1215 a.d.), which was one of the favorite doments of the colonists. {Yes, I realize that this is not a binding legal document in the US, or even Britain for that matter today. But it does show the thinking of the day}
    And our Official National Anthem, The Star Spangled Banner, verse #4:
     
  13. Johnv

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    The founding fathers were neither interested in founding a theocratic country, nor a country which recognizes one specific religion over another.

    Oh, please, not the old "moon god" arguement. That's been debated countless times on this board. I suppose it also doesn't include the Jewish, JW, or Mormon concept of God? How about the Catholics and Anglicans?? How about Arabic Christians and Jews who refer to God as Allah? Should they be forbidden to do so in the US?
    We weren't discussing the FIrst Amendment. "One Nation Under God" isn't anywhere in the First Amendment. Amendment I says nothing about God. It simply says that the government may not recognize any establishment of religion. Neither may it abridge the free excercise of each individual to do the same.
    It does not refer to a specific religion's God. It is simply the country's motto. The phrase "One Nation Under God" is not binding, not compulsory, and not a matter of law. The Constitution never mentions God. Additionally, the Constitution expressly forbids any sort of religious test as a requirement for any public office or post.
     
  14. baptistteacher

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    And from George Washington
     
  15. Artimaeus

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    That still begs the question. Is it the one true God or "not exactly"?
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    So, maybe the "free exercise" clause of the First Amendment only applies to those who worship the True God?
     
  17. Artimaeus

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    No, but they get to hitch themselves to the bandwagon. My question is: Were we endowed by the real Creator or some generic concept of diety? Were the references to "God" or "god"?
     
  18. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    It is difficult going back and forth between The Declaration of Independence, The constitution, national mottoes, songs, etc.

    The ONLY that has legal bearing is the constitution. It never mentions God (or god) and promises that everyone can exercise their own religion. Muslims have the same rights as Jews and Christians in this regard. The US Constitution is "god-less" just for that reason, to guarantee to EVERYONE religious liberty.
     
  19. Johnv

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    It is for me.

    As for the rest, I think the post just before this one sums it up well.
     

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