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One problem with C preaching

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by billwald, Jul 28, 2004.

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  1. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    I am a TULIP person. There is no test for regeneration taught either in TULIP or Calvin. My pastor is TULIP and accepts the parable of the wheat and tares - and that the Church is a "hospital for sick people." But his teaching and praying consistantly refer to "we" as "we, the regenerate," not "we, the tares and the wheat," as if "official" church membership or whatever can differentiate between the regenerate and the reprobate.
     
    #1 billwald, Jul 28, 2004
  2. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    Since Calvinists believe in the efficacy of preaching and everyone in the church has heard his preaching, your pastor is assuming everyone has been saved until proven otherwise. What's wrong with that?
     
    #2 John Gilmore, Aug 3, 2004
  3. npetreley

    npetreley New Member

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    Ever notice that the epistles in the Bible are written that way, too? There is mention of those who "weren't from us", etc., but in general the authors of the epistles write with the assumption that the readers are the elect.
     
    #3 npetreley, Aug 3, 2004
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Christ did not assume that everyone in the church is saved.

    In Matt 7 Christ - speaking to the chosen - the members of the ONE true nation church sovereignly started by God at Sinai said "the MANY" will be lost and the "FEW" saved.

    Paul speaking of the church in Acts 20 said that "FROM AMONG YOUR OWN SELVES" men would arise as wolves taking disciples after themselves.

    There is constant reminder in the NT that the NT writers did NOT consider everyone in a given congration to be "saved".

    But if you're a Calvinist -- "so what"?? Since nothing you say OR the listerner "chooses" makes any difference at ALL??

    IN Christ,

    Bob
     
    #4 BobRyan, Aug 3, 2004
  5. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    BobRyan,

    I'm a little surprised you have a problem assuming everyone is saved given the Arminian view of unlimited atonement. What if the entire congregation has made the "decision" and been rebaptized as Arminians? Should the pastor accept their signed and notarized pledges? Do they need to do a bunch of good works first? Should the pastor constantly doubt the salvation of his flock even though they keep doing all these good works?

    Regardless, the preacher's preaching should not be effected. Both the regenerate and the reprobate need to hear the law and the gospel.

    [ August 04, 2004, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: John Gilmore ]
     
    #5 John Gilmore, Aug 4, 2004
  6. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Should be able to get the same message across without using an inclusive "we."
     
    #6 billwald, Aug 4, 2004
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    It is unlimited in that the atoning sacrifice covered "OUR SINS and not OUR sins only but the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1John 2:2

    However the atoning sacrifice is one of several key steps in the entire atonement "process" God identifies for us in Lev 16.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #7 BobRyan, Aug 5, 2004
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