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Discussion in 'Politics' started by christianyouth, Oct 23, 2009.
Labor force. A country needs a labor force.
We have a near 10% unemployment rate. Lack of labor force is not the problem.
If, however, we needed immigrant labor due to a high demand for labor, most would agree that immigration is fine, so long as immigrants go through the immigration process legally.
That's true--good point.
But if we got rid of minimum wage laws that large labor force would really come in handy. The problem is that manufacturers can set up in a different country and pay their labor 1/15 of what they would pay their labor in the US.
And there's nothing necessarily wrong with doing so. Were it not for overseas manufactoring, the computer you're sitting at would cost $3000.00. Eliminating the minimum wage won't change that. The problem isn't immigration, the problem is illegal immigration.
no, no, no.
Illegal workers (key word!) destroys the economy:
-it allows the cheating businesses an unfair advantage.
-it messes up revenue-based programs--Social security is a great example--also, withholding, FICA, and the like.
-where there is a high illegal population, crime is more rampant. And why not? If you'll break one law, what stops you from breaking another?
-we already have a "work force." It's called American citizens.
-illegal immigration allows us no control as to who comes in...folks with communicable diseases, criminal records, and such.
-social unrest...look at some of the foolishness going on in Europe, with some of the immigrant issues there.
These are just "top of my head" concerns.
Exactly. The problem isn't immigration, the problem is illegal immigration.
we have a lot of unemployed labor force as it is. and locally illegals are one reason it's hard to find a job.
Getting rid of minimum wage laws would only hurt the poorest Americans. The real issue is the fact that our standard of living and pay overall are much higher than those of developing nations like China. I've never been able to see a way to get beyond that reality. We used to be able to make up for a large part of the difference through better efficiency and computerization but they're catching up in those areas and still have low pay scales.
One thing I support is breaking all the unions. They had their day when they did a great service by ensuring safe working conditions and fair pay for their members. Now all they do is to impose unnecessary work rules and demand higher than market wages. They also demand higher benefits (health care and retirement) than their bosses get in management. That is the case in the company I work for and makes no sense to me whatsoever.
I understand that, as a consumer, I benefit from overseas manufacturing--but what I'm concerned with is the national economy. The countries with all of the assets are the countries with the low-wage earning labor force. As they develop more, they are going to dominate the world economy--which in the case of China, a human rights violating, Big Brother endorsing country-- is very dangerous.
We have to develop a labor force again if we want to compete. The labor force has to be low wage enough so that businesses will profit in using them instead of using foreign labor. This means letting the free-market dictate the wages again--by that I mean basing pay not on seniority or on Union/Government demands but on what the VALUE of that job is.
It means that we have to have poor people making up a labor force in order to stay economically competitive, and we need to stay economically competitive if we want to stay protected.
There are going to be real foreign threats in the next hundred or so years. The developing countries have the labor forces, which means they have the ability to get ALL the assets. Some of the developing countries are great democracies, but a lot of them aren't--and when you have countries that aren't Western democracies(ie they don't hold to universal human rights, the free press etc) suddenly becoming world economic powers, there is going to be war.
Hmmmmm, I really don't know how to answer these but I'll think about this. I was coming at this problem just from a mass economic stand point, and I haven't really thought of these specific issues.
Pigs do fly, I actually agree with Tidy on something. Unions, for the most part, need to go.
Unions have gone from helping alleviate the problem to being a large part of the problem.
We need a manufacturing force in this country and not to have to depend on foreign manufactures to build the things we need.
One problem is national greed. Many companies have no sense of treating workers to a fair day's wage. This isn't limited to the company owners, the average American wants his stock to pay as much in returns as possible regardless of the needs of the workers in the companies these employees word for. Then there are some workers who feel they should get more in compensation than they deserve for the work they do.
Well, if we're stuck with only US made prodicts, and I gotta spend $3500 on a computer, guess what? I'm not going to buy it, which means that the American distrubutors, resellers, storeowners, salespersons, and retailers are now hurt.
That's a topic for a whole different thread. But it's a matter of history that as China's market has shifted towards a capitalist model, oppression has dropped and freedoms have increased. Besides, it seems a bit hypocritical to complain about the human rights of China while we're buying oil from Saudi Arabia with particular concern about human rights.
You're presuming that manufacturing jobs are minimum wage jobs. They're not. Most domestic manufacturing jobs are nonunion skilled labor that makes well above minimum.
Now, back to the OP, I reiterate, the problem in the US economy isn't with immigration, it's with illegal immigration.
Mark it on the calendar! I agree with Alatide on this one:
Another of the problems we face is that the upcoming new workers (high schoolers and college kids) are being taught to DESERVE things, rather than to EARN them. I have a nephew who actually refused a part-time job because it "only" paid $8 per hour! (The minimum wage here at the time was $7 something per hour). He still has no job, 2 years later, in part because of that desire for "big bucks" and in part because of his ADHD (and, IMHO, his laziness).
I have been training people at my work as delivery drivers for 6 years, and most of the "kids" (age 20 to 25 at my company) don't want to work, but expect to get big paychecks. It ain't gonna happen, folks! You have to work your way up, just like everyone in history has (except a few modern ones).
We could also legalize prostitution corner drug selling etc. How we create a labor force is just as important as creating one.
legal jobs are tax dollars too.:tonofbricks:
Why does your profile list "retired" as your occupation if you are working?
Makes no sense to me whatsoever.