One that ruleth well his own house.

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Ulsterman, Oct 7, 2002.

  1. Ulsterman

    Ulsterman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scripture teaches that a Pastor is to be "One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity." (1 Timothy 3:4).

    Where would you draw the line on this? For example, what would you say if a pastor's 18 year old son was living in rebellion, partying, getting drunk on weekends , refusing to come to church etc., does this disqualify the man?
     
  2. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  3. Mrs KJV

    Mrs KJV
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/MrsKJV.gif>

    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2002
    Messages:
    215
    Likes Received:
    0
    We as leaders in the church can rule our own houses well teaching our chilren truth, but again it comes down to making their heart believe this. If this child is over 18 and and doing these things I don't believe that the pastor should be held accountable. I know one situation that the child made the commment that it was nothing that his parents taught him that turned him away from God, but was the way that Christians actually treated his family. He did not want to deal with this himself. We as Christians have to remember we touch peoples lives in every way, whether we are a minsiter or church member. [​IMG]
     
  4. Circuitrider

    Circuitrider
    Expand Collapse
    <img src=/circuitrider2.JPG>

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2000
    Messages:
    729
    Likes Received:
    0
    It seems to me that allowing his son to live "like the devil" in his home is a clear case of "not ruling his own house." No matter what the reason for rebellious living, it is wrong and a violation of biblical truth. If any of my five children had acted in that way I would consider myself biblically disqualified. By the grace of God they did not.
     
  5. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would agree with Circutrider, in that a man is not ruling his house very well if he allows his son to live under his roof in the manner described. That is if he ALLOWS him to. At that age I'm not sure what steps a man would need to take to discipline his son, but certainly some form of discipline is nessesary. Again, I say that the character of the family is not in question, what is in question is the ability of the man to lead, not only his family but the church. Now if this Pastor were to lead his family through this trial then would he still be disqualified? in Christ
     
  6. skilight33pw1

    skilight33pw1
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2002
    Messages:
    35
    Likes Received:
    0
    If this child lives under the same roof as the pastor than I would say yes. I am a pastors wife and we have a son out in the world. However my husband would not allow him to stay in our house and live in rebellion to God. Lifting this pastor up in prayer should be on the top of your list.
    Also his child. Its a very hard situation to be in.
     
  7. Ulsterman

    Ulsterman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2002
    Messages:
    1,048
    Likes Received:
    0
    Assuming the pastor does not ALLOW this behaviour in his home, but that the boy conducts his life this way out of the home (although he is primarily resident in the home) would the pastor in your opinion still be disqualified. Also, do you think by forcing the son out the home the pastor is adequately leading his family, including his son, through the problems, or is he just abandoning him to the world? The prodigal's father did not boot his son out, the boy left. Presumably the prodigal son had been giving his father trouble before he finally made the break.

    [ October 09, 2002, 06:30 AM: Message edited by: D Moore ]
     
  8. Abiyah

    Abiyah
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/abiyah.gif>

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2002
    Messages:
    5,194
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe the Scriptures say that he should rule
    his own house "well." No one will know how
    well one's home is "ruled" unless they become
    personally involved and interested.

    Some pastors' homes give the appearance of
    well-ruled homes. The children come to church
    when he does, they sit quietly in church, they do
    all the outward things expected, etc. They cer-
    tainly look like he does a good job. But what
    goes on behind the closed doors of the pastor's
    home may tell another story--a story you may
    never know. I know: I am from such a home.

    Who is more qualified: the one whose children
    are rebelious at the age of eighteen or the one
    whose children have been taught to hide the
    truth? And how will you know?
     
  9. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    I tend to think that kicking him out, is the easy way out. Now don't get me wrong, there is a thing called tough love, but I think that it is only when the actions of the one seem to be destroying the family as a whole that that step becomes advisable. Otherwise, I would want to continue to shine my light, and it's always brighter the closer my family is. I would want to tend my sheep,and if one of them got lost, I would go through anything to bring them back. A man of this love, for his family, is well fitted for the Pastoral ministry.WP
     
  10. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    While under the pastor's roof, they ought to be under the pastor's rule. Such a son is not and the pastor is disqualified.

    Not for ever, but for the duration of his chid-rearing days. Once children go beyond years at home, they will reflect badly on the pastor but not disqualify.

    I told my kids how much I loved the ministry, but the day they came home pregnant, etc, would be the day I quit.

    I am sick of pastors who have a sham of a home and then feel they are still qualified to pastor. What a reproach on the Word and our Lord.

    Get a job selling insurance or used cars, but don't infect the body with that mindset.
     
  11. eaglewings

    eaglewings
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    What do you think of the following?

    Dan Earl Allmond, Youth Pastor of Tampa Baptist Church, Tampa, a Southern Baptist Church, and a married man, suddenly resigned on December 9, 1998 and disappeared off the scene when the police were called in concerning a complaint made by a female high school student that she was having sex with the pastor as a minor.

    Senior Pastor McCormick of Tampa Baptist Church denied all knowledge about the sexual activities and ordered the staff of Tampa Baptist Academy to stay silent on the whole matter and not to discuss Dan's previous sexual escapades with no one! McCormick's own daughter was sexually promiscuous and had to leave school for a while for fear of being pregnant.

    The bible states that a Senior Pastor must be one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?). Hence Senior Pastor McCormick resigned as pastor in the spring of the next year when he sought to divorce his wife.

    Dan Earl Allmond faced two counts of unlawful sexual activity with a minor. Police said that the youth pastor had sexual relations with the girl on church property and at his home on W Paris Street. The sexual relations occurred between August and October, Cole said according to jail records reported the Tampa Tribune.

    Allmond is a Sex Offender under Florida law and now the Florida Department of Law Enforcement's Sexual Offender/Predator Unit has his picture posted on the web at http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/sexual_predators/OffenderFlyer.asp?keys=26812
     
  12. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2002
    Messages:
    167
    Likes Received:
    0
    What if they came home and told you they were a sinner. Would you still quit?
     
  13. jonmagee

    jonmagee
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2002
    Messages:
    2,411
    Likes Received:
    0
    Five things might be worth considering here.
    1)Living in Northern Ireland you will be aware you have cited an example of one who is legally an adult and therefore the parent does not have the legal authority to apply there wishes.
    2)What was the witness of the church, some pastors children have rebelled because the church has acted inappropriately toward the father or expected values in pastors CHILDREN they have not expected in themselves as "mature" ADULTS.As a father,as well as pastor, do we support the family through such stress?
    3)Jobs familly appeared to have wild parties, yet God does not doubt the integrity of this man of God.
    4)Can you handle the family right even if some are erring?Can you say to this young person, I do not like what you are doing, but I love YOU with all of my heart.Handle them lovingly.
    5)John1 says "we beheld His glory......full of grace & truth" If the glory of the Lord is in our ministry we will have both.All truth and no grace=brutality, all grace and no truth=hypocrosy.
    should this not equally be seen in our family life?
    yours, Jon
     
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Question: What if they came home and told you they were a sinner (pregnant or such)?

    Answer: Some sins disqualify a man from being a pastor. Not controling his children is one of them.

    Now, that doesn't mean that they will NEVER sin (only MY kids were perfect)! But major sins in the eyes of the world - drunkeness, robery, adultery, murder, sex offence, etc would cause great reproach upon the kids AND their family.

    And qualification #1 is "above reproach". The rest of the list kind of describes various scenarios where a pastor would NOT be above reproach.
     
  15. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    I approach this subject tenderly and with a thankful heart for God and His grace in our lives.

    I have taught my children that according to the scriptures:
    1. Authority is always present.
    2. God is my authority and I must answer to Him.
    3. According to "For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother and cleave unto his wife...", this teaches that the spiritual covering of a son and a daughter changes at the marriage covenant.
    4. Until that time I am responsible for their lives before God and what they do will definitly effect my pastoral ministry.

    We teach this in reference to the family and call it the doctrine of coverture.
    I have one son (26) married and living in Indpls. He is now answerable to God as he is the head of his home. I have a daughter who is 18 and a son who is 15. I am the "covering" for them and they live in my home. A rebellious child outside the home is still the spiritual responsibility of the father. God holds the father responsible.
     
  16. latterrain77

    latterrain77
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2002
    Messages:
    497
    Likes Received:
    0
    Hi D. Moore. Consider one of the best dads who ever lived – the “Prodigal's” dad (Luke 15: 11-32). This man had a rebellious son (we Christians call him the Prodigal son). Would the Prodigal son’s dad be disqualified to be a pastor as a result of his son’s rebellion? I say NO!

    This dad showed evidence of having wonderful Biblical wisdom – such that the Biblical teachings the boy was raised with “came back” to him and finally led him back to the path of righteousness.

    Furthermore, the Prodigal son did NOT show any evidence of being “disrespectful” to his father (quite the opposite) even though he was in rebellion. This is the specific standard that is required in 1 Tim. 3: 4 as ONE of the requirements to be a Pastor.

    Would GOD himself be disqualified to be a Pastor because HIS sons (me, you and all believers) are rebellious? I say positively NO.

    A child CAN be rebellious yet still be respectful, solemn, dignified towards his dad (gravity). This is the real test of how well a dad has done in line with the 1 Tim. 3:4 requirement. We Christians are rebellious towards GOD every time that we sin, yet most of us continue to love and respect him with extreme solemnity even while we do.

    So then, it is not the behavior of the children per se, but rather the manner of the dynamic between child and dad that determines the man's 1 Tim 3: 4 eligibility to be a pastor. It must be solemen, dignified, respectful, and properly serious.

    If the dad has continually raised his children in a Biblical manner, then his children WILL view him in the most solemn manner (despite teenage rebellion), and this will be powerful evidence that the Dad has likely done his 1 Tim. 3: 4 part – JUST like the Prodigal son’s Dad obviously did. [​IMG]

    latterrain77

    [ October 27, 2002, 02:10 PM: Message edited by: latterrain77 ]
     

Share This Page

Loading...