One Verse, Two Versions, And Two...

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by TCGreek, Mar 18, 2008.

  1. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    1. The HCSB and the TNIV (revision of NIV) are two MVs that I really like.

    2. But they both read differently at Titus 1:3:

    "And which [eternal life] now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior" (TNIV, emphasis mine).

    "And has in His own time revealed His message in the proclamation that I was entrusted with by the command of God our Savior" (HCSB, emphasis mine).

    3. According to the TNIV "eternal life" was "brought to light" through preaching, while the HCSB has "His message" as what was revealed.

    4. Unless the HSCB's "His message" is "eternal life," it says something different than the TNIV.

    5. So which is it? Well, after looking at my Greek text, the HCSB reflects the wording that we find in the Greek text.

    But what is "His message"?

    6. The NET reads: "But now in his own time he has made his message evident through the preaching I was entrusted with according to the command of God our Savior" (emphasis mine).

    7. The only conclusion of the TNIV then is this: the translators understood the Greek τὸν λόγον αὐτοῦ , literally "his word," to refer to "eternal life" of v.2.

    What you guys think?
     
  2. Amy.G

    Amy.G
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    Can I try? :)

    The NKJV reads:

    Tts 1:3 but has in due time manifested His word through preaching, which was committed to me according to the commandment of God our Savior;


    If we back up to verse 2:

    Tts 1:2 in hope of eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began,


    I would think "His word" is referring to the promise of eternal life.


    I forgot how much I love the NKJV!
     
  3. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    I think you're correct, Amy.

    I think that is what the TNIV did.

    I'm proud of you. :thumbs:
     
  4. Amy.G

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    Thank you! That means a lot! :wavey:
     
  5. franklinmonroe

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    First, if Amy's assertion is correct that the TNIV has assumed ton logon auton to be referring back to verse 2, then perhaps it is incomplete. The phrase in verse 2 is "hope of eternal life", not simply "eternal life"; those are not the same thing (else what is "hope of" doing there?).

    Second, while "word" (here it is "his word" in the KJV, but also sometimes "the word of God", "word of truth" or other variations throughout scripture) is clearly more than a literal individual phoneme, I think it means more than just "eternal life". I think "word" encompasses the entire Gospel, the whole of the 'good news'. I think it means life then (heavenly) AND more abundant life now (earthly). I think this Gospel "word" includes concepts of repentance and forgiveness that the TNIV's narrow and too specific rendering with "eternal life" is lacking here. The HCSB's "message" is broad and less interpretive, thus being more representative of the original Greek.
     
    #5 franklinmonroe, Mar 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2008
  6. 2serve

    2serve
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    Hey, Check it out, I found a version that says "literally" His Word (ie. The KJV)

    John 1:1-14 Clearly tell us that Jesus is in fact the physical manifestation of the Word Of God. Therefore it must be saying that He "manifested his" Son "through preaching"
    Romans 10:17 "So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God."
    1 Cor. 1:18"For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness..."
    vs.21 "...it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe."
    1 cor. 2:2 "For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Christ and him crucified."

    Sounds to me like, if we leave out the WORD then we leave out Salvation.

    :tonofbricks:
     
  7. Rippon

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  8. 2serve

    2serve
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    Hmmm. I thought that the word "message" basicly meant message and that the word "word" basicly meant Word.

    See I knew that I should have taken more than two semesters of that greek stuff then I could have had a proper understanding of English.

    Of course that all depends on what "is" is.

    Well I suppose that I'll shall have to suffer through life with only that mediocre understanding of English that all of those English Teachers forced on me.

    :tonofbricks:
     
    #8 2serve, Mar 19, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 19, 2008
  9. Rippon

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    Trifles . Message = word . BTW , where did you learn 'basicly' ?
     
  10. 2serve

    2serve
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    In my Greek classes.
     
  11. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    Franklin, maybe you can see it as shorthand. At any rate,...

    Context determines the meaning of the use of logos, which has so many nuances.

    I know that the TNIV is quite interpretive on this one, but I think the translators made the correct choice.

    Let's look at it closely: Keep in mind that words only function as their context would let them.

    "in the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, and which now at his appointed season he has brought to light through the preaching entrusted to me by the command of God our Savior" (TNIV, emphasis mine).

    Clearly the TNIV see the Greek ton logon auton as referring to the promised eternal life of v.2, which Paul says is revealed in preaching.

    What was promised has been revealed in preaching. The TNIV translators saw ton logon autou as the anaphoric use of ho logos (some have made the same argument in 2Tim 3:16-4:2).
     
  12. John of Japan

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    This is a very good example of two contrasting translation philosophies. The TNIV tries to erase the ambiguity of the original, but the HCSV leaves it in so that the reader himself can interpret--just like is being done on this thread. Personally I would translate "His word" and let the chips fall where they may. :type:
     
  13. TCGreek

    TCGreek
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    And that has been what some people see as the problem with the NIV/TNIV, interpreting a bit too much rather than letting the reading figure it out.

    "in hope of eternal life, which God, who never lies, promised before the ages began and at the proper time manifested in his word through the preaching with which I have been entrusted by the command of God our Savior" (ESV).

    I think the ESV has been able to do a good job of being formal and readable at the same time, so that the reader can get the sense of what was actually revealed.
     
  14. John of Japan

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    I read through the NIV twice and that's what I saw. I've not read the TNIV, despite Rippon's advertisements, and probably won't since I didn't like the NIV (despite the excellent English it has). :smilewinkgrin:

    I've been reading the ESV, which my son sent, and think it's fairly good as translations go--except that alas, they used the wrong Greek text! [​IMG]
     
  15. TCGreek

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    I too felt that while the NIV was quite readable it sacrificed too much accuracy. But I do think the TNIV has corrected most of the shortcomings of the NIV.

    At one point, I really didn't like the ESV because of the marketing and the overselling, but I do think it is a good Bible for the formal approach.

    Some would be shocked to here me say this: But I think it is better than the NASB.

    Well, TR vs CT. That's a good debate. :laugh:
     
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Well John, at least you and I have this figured out :).
     
  17. John of Japan

    John of Japan
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    And the cream rises to the top on the BB! :thumbs: :thumbs:
     
  18. Rippon

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    I haven't plugged it on this thread . Maybe you're remembering past ads !
     
  19. John of Japan

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    You're slipping. :type:
     
  20. Salamander

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    Seems God manifested what He promised through the preaching of His word choosing the days of Paul to accomplish that very thing.

    Yall know I am what you deem as "KJVO", and this verse is just another reason I stick with the KJB.

    I had no "guesswork" to perform after reading the verse in the KJB.:godisgood:
     

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