Oneness doctrine

Why did the Jewish leaders want him dead then? Because he healed people? *

You're being ignorant for ignorances sake now. *Its pathetic! *

Does it matter? *I believe that unless you believe that Jesus is God you will die in your sins (John 8:24)

If he's the 2nd person of the Triune Godhead I'm sure it would say it in the bible. *Could you pleas show me?

I brased for that responce as soon as I typed what I said!

But on the other hand you havent entered into the field that says "Home Church" your real home church. *You put Independent Baptist! *Is that the name of your church? *That's more of a denomination. *

I didnt tell you to take my word for it. *I was speaking as though I was someone like you...example. *DHK says "I dont want you talking to other people about the bible about what they believe...this is what I say they believe, take my word for it"

You only have one problem when you take me before Herod...You don't know which one of the reasons is the real reason why I got a new Screen Name. *If a person does have more than one S/n and does not post with one and that one is inactive, it not like you really have 2 names then is it?

I think your deceitful. *Where do you go to church. *You didn't put that one in your profile. *What you go to an Independent Baptist Church? *I go to a Christian Church.*

And noone knows what denomination you are. *You know how many different kinds of Baptist there are out there? *I think your trying to hide something DHK. *What is it?

Where!

You're taking that out of context.

The only scripture you gave me is about being accursed.

The rest however is something you want so desperatly to be true, but you still cant give me scripture. *

Thats whats sad! *You accuse me of believing in a false Jesus and I can quote off all day long about Jesus being God or First or Last....Just not second!

I just hope you realize this someday!

Where does it say he's the 2nd person?

Just in your head!

*

Do you have a facebook? *I cant really reply to this here! *Or do you want to hide?

Show me in the bible. *

This is just in your head

Btw, I had to edit bc I messed up the quite thing. Everything was blue. Hope that made it eaiser

 

Christ is the second person of the triune Godhead. If he isn't, then he isn't God. Look at the Scriptures:

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. (John 1:1)
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. (John 1:14)
--The Word is Christ, dwelt among men. The Word is God. John beheld the Word, Jesus Christ who is God.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)
--This is the clearest statement on the trinity in the Bible: First the Father, Second the Son, and Third, the Holy Spirit. The Word or the Son is Second. That is Christ. He is always second in order in the triune Godhead. These three are one. That is they are one God. The teaching could not be any plainer than in this verse.

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Matthew 28:19)
--Again the same order is given: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is God's order. The Son is always second--always. He sits at the right hand of the throne of God the Father interceding for the saints. In order for him to make intercession there must be one to intercede for (us), and there must be one to intercede to (the Father). The Son (Christ) is second in the trinity and is thus able to make intercession for us to the Father.

Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. (Romans 8:34)

Christ cannot be God the Father and make intercession to God the Father and be Christ the Son at the same time. They are not the same person. The Father is the first person, and the Son is the Second person. They are equal in rank, but have different roles.

What did Christ do when he was on the cross?
And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? (Mark 15:34)
--Here was the Son's darkest hour on the cross, when God the Father turned his back (as it were) on God the Son, while God the Son bore the sins of the world upon him. There are not two Gods here. There is one. And Christ is the second person of the trinity, the Holy Spirit being the third. The evidence is overwhelming.

Then, you have the entire baptism of Christ to explain, when all three persons are present at the same time. What do you do with that?

 

No need to be insulting, especially when you can't answer your own questions.
The Jewish leaders wanted him dead out of jealousy. They rejected Christ and would rather have a thief go free (Barabbas) than someone innocent that had done no crimes such as Christ.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
--His own were the Jews. They rejected him. They did not believe that he was the Messiah.

12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: (John 1:11-12)
--But many did. They believed through faith, and they became the children of God, inheritors of eternal life.

I and my Father are one. (John 10:30)
--Christ claimed to be God.
His claim to do miracles, including healing did not bother the Jews. Note here:

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. (John 10:32-33)

His good works were his miracles. They were not stoning him for that. They were stoning him because in verse 30 he claimed to be God, and they considered that blasphemy because they rejected that claim. They did not believe that he was the Messiah, God come in the flesh. They were angry and jealous of that claim.

 

If you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation you will indeed die in your sins with no hope of eternal life, for you will be trusting your works rather than trusting Christ alone for salvation.
Salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. You cannot add anything to it.

 

Yes, that shows to the board the name of the "denomination" or who I am associated with. That is all that they are concerned with. If the name of your church gives that information then they would be satisfied. For example if you had put "St. Paul's Anglican Church," we would know both the denomination and the name of the church that you go to. But you don't even have the intestinal fortitude to identify the denomination that you belong to. You are a coward. One of those two fields must be filled out properly as to identify who you belong to or with, that is, who you are associated with. I am a moderator here. I know what the rules are. And you are the one breaking them.

 

There are three that bear witness in heaven, the father, word, and spirit.*

No where does it say however he's 2nd

I agree with you on the witness! *Just not an order!

 

Staned Glass...

Did you try hitting the "Go back" button or the back "arrow" button when that happens?

In my experience it sometimes works and sometimes doesnt.

I hit a wrong button last night and lost an entire post..I thought.

I hit the back arrow button and it came right back.

AiC

 

Your quibbling for nothing! You admit THREE witnesses and you admit they cannot be the SAME PERSON as that would make Christ's invoking of this Mosaic Law complete absolute nonsense.

The Scriptures have the Father sending the Son and the Son sending the Spirit in that order.

You are simply repudiating common sense! There are THREE and the THREE are repeatedly represented in Scriptures in the same ORDER whether it is in regard to sending or in regard to the baptismal command (Mt. 28:19-20) or to position (1 Cor. 11:3) or closure to praise and prayers (2 Cor. 13:12) or as in the verse you quote in 1 John 5:8.

It is not contrary to the Bible to simply define them as THREE as the very text you quote defines them as "THREE." It is not unbiblical or contrary to the Bible to place these THREE in the sequential order they are repeatdly presented in scripture even as the text you quote follows that same sequential order and thus 1,2, 3 in regard to position, sending, baptismal representation, prayers, etc.

The designations first, second and third Persons of the THREE but ONE God properly represents the order declared in scriptuers over and over again.

 

So let me read this the way you do.*

In the beginning was the 2nd person and the 2nd person was with the 1st person and 2nd person was the 1st person. And the 2nd person became flesh and dwelt among us and we beheld his glory, the glory of the only begotten of the 1st person.*

Wow...reading it like that may even support another view your familiar with.*

I guess from here it's all based on interpretation again.*

It's a great argument for you though.*

Not so much a good argument. *

Ok arguments!

Very week argument!

Here's the thing DHK, I haven't said one word this whole time about not believing in the Trinity. You've assumed that because I made the stand about not having to believe that Jesus is the 2nd to be saved. *

Although you present great scripture to support the trinity, it still does not support having to believe that Jesus is 2nd in order to be saved.*

 

It is a simple statement of the deity of Christ given in verse one.
In verse 14 coupled with 1John 5:7 we know that that person called the WORD is the second person of the triune Godhead. Scripture doesn't contradict itself.

For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7)
It not a matter of interpretation.
And yest it is a great argument if you look at it that way. The Bible clearly says that there are three that are one, and then it gives the order: Father, Word, and Holy Spirit. You can either accept Scripture or deny it.

So you say. It is a question of you either accepting the Word of God as it is written or denying it:

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: *(Matthew 28:19)

Yes, very good arguments. Christ cannot be two persons in the same Godhead at the same time.

It is your rebuttal that is very weak. You even spell "weak" wrong.
You have not come up with one good statement, Scripture reference, logical argument, nothing. In fact all you have is something that leads to a denial of the trinity itself. Is that what you believe?

You are right. You haven't said one thing. Thus my conclusion is that you may be a Hindu, a Muslim, a Oneness, or any other religion under the sun. My conclusion is that there is .00001% that you are an actual Christian for you haven't demonstrated any evidence of being one, at least not doctrinally. When you hide your doctrine you do have something to hide. True believers praise the God they love and are not afraid to come out and identify with the One whom they love to serve. But you are a coward and hide behind a cloak of silence, a cloak of unbelief.

As I said: hiding behind a cloak of unbelief.
Can you demonstrate to those on the board that you are a believer in Christ, a true Christian? What does it mean to be born again?

 

Don't laugh, but I use my google toolbar as a spell check and if I click on the word and try to copy it, it directs me to google. Then when I hit the back button only the quote was there that I wanted to reply to.

 

No need to be insulting?

What you mean is that you think my relationship is with Satan. That's insulting. I just hope God convicts your heart!

It had some to do with Jealousy. But It had more to do with the fact that Jesus defiled their traditions and mocked everything they did.

Him claiming to be God gave them the leverage to have him killed!

I agree in the text you gave they wanted him killed for claiming to be God, but
Not so fast!

Matthew 12, pretty much the entire chapter, Talks about the Pharisees wanting to destroy him for healing a man on the sabbeth and challenging their traditions. (Mat 12:1-14)

Then Jesus is healing a guy and they accuse him of doing it by the power of Satan! Jesus warns them of blasphemy (Mat 12:22-36). Sort of like you saying that I'm worshipping Satan! So I think it may even behoove you to read this chapter just for that reason.

On a side note: Jesus knows the hearts of the ones he accused of being of their Father the Devil. You don't!

Your doing it again! You are assuming what I believe.

but you make a good point though. If salvation is by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone where does it say you have to have faith and believe he's the 2nd person in the trinity? Who's adding to it?

What Church do you go to DHK?

And BTW...Coward sounds pretty insulting to me. Not to much integrity calling someone a coward? Christians don't insult people. And all this time I thought you were a good oh Alter Boy!

If the board has a problem with the way I answered it I don't think they would have approved it! Believe me, I'm not getting any special privileges.

 

Jesus said to his disciples: "By their fruit ye shall know them." The fruit that he was speaking of was not works but rather doctrine. "Beware of the leaven (corrupt doctrine) of the Pharisees. In that sense we are called to be "fruit-inspectors. I have inspected your fruit (doctrine) and found it to be wanting. If you don't belong to the family of God, there is only one other family in the world. The new birth is required so that a man can be born into God's family and come out of the devil's family. You are a member of one or the other. You have not demonstrated that you have been born again yet. So, how am I to believe that you are a part of the family of God. If you are not, then I have no other choice but to conclude the other.

I assume a person is unsaved until he demonstrates that he is saved.
By your posts, I will assume that you deny the trinity until you make clear that you don't. You must provide the evidence. You must demonstrate that you are an evangelical Christian. Thus far you have not done that. You even refuse to do so on your profile. Beware! Here is what Jesus said:

Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. (Mark 8:38)
--It seems that you are ashamed of the one true God and Saviour, our Lord Jesus Christ, the second person of the triune Godhead; and if so he shall be ashamed of you when he comes again.

Even the unsaved have no excuse not to believe this. You are without excuse!!

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
20For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: (Romans 1:19-20)
--The Bible states that you are without excuse for not believing.

I am not a part of the RCC. I was when I was not saved. That is irrelevant. Your insults are not needed. Jesus calls you a coward when he calls you ashamed to be identified with him. The meaning is the same. I stand with Christ.

Sometimes the board makes mistakes. They aren't perfect.

 

I'll admit I frequent the spell check, but I know how to spell weak I can assure you. I was on my iphon in the gym typing those dumb replys and my phone automatically suggests words and I was in a hurry and didnt stop it.

I'll just keep you wondering!

But if you tell me your Name and the Church you attend I'll offer a trade

At least you gave me a small percentage!

I remember on plenty occasions Jesus healing people and telling them to Tell no one. Thats kind of like hiding isnt it?

Heck I even remember Jesus telling his deciples to hide the fact that they knew he was God until he suffered many things (Luke 9:20-22)

Guess Jesus knew they were cowards.

You know, I even remeber Jesus hding himself on several occasions. (John 8:59)

Guess that good oh guy we know to be Lord was being deceitful cause he was hiding. You probably have a problem with that. Guess he should had just come on out since he had nothing to be ashamed of and let them kill him!

Sure. I believe that God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. I believe in him!

What does it mean to be born again? You'd probably just get mad. I would just quote the bible! John 3 is what it means to be born again!

 

Call it what you will, just be careful! God will seperate the wheat from the tares!

Just because I don't feel you in on everything about me doesn't make me ashamed of Christ.

Jesus wasn't to ashamed of Peter was he. Gosh, ended up telling him to go feed his sheep and everything!

I'll take my chances with God on this one. You trying tobully me into revealing my personal life to you isnt going to work

Good try though.

And by the way, I'm sorry for being sarcastic in my post. If they come across insulting, I don't mean for all of them to!

I can picture a guy with a beard in a robe with long wavey golden locks looking at me Doing Chicken legs going Bock...Bock Bock....Bock bock bock bock bock....:laugh:

They're not? I thought they were all baptist....:laughs: It's a joke, its a joke...you got to admit...it made you smile :laugh:

 

You keep us all wondering about your salvation and what cult you belong to. The more you do that the more you have all of us convinced that you are indeed a member of a cult, because you are unable and unwilling to be forthright and honest about your religious affiliation. You hide behind a cloak of deceit and even fear.

First, let me tell you the rules. Only one of those two fields is required to be filled out, and that I have done. You have filled out neither. In other words I have identified myself as an IFB as the rules indicate.

Secondly, if you have been here for 11 years you already know far more than is on my profile, more than you need to know.

Thirdly, if you look at my profile again you will see that it says missionary. My home church is an IFB church in Canada. But I am a missionary often in another nation not even posting in Canada. Thus the name of the church that I might be posting from in the nation I am posting from will be different. You don't even know if I am in Canada right now. Am I am not about to reveal that to you, for I need that degree of anonymity. I therefore keep some of those facts hidden.

But, for you, you have no excuse.

It is getting smaller all the time.

No, they were to tell the high priest first, as was required by Levitical law.
Secondly, if they told everyone right away, Jesus would not be able to do the work he was called to do because he didn't have 21st century mob control.

Heck I even remember Jesus telling his deciples to hide the fact that they knew he was God until he suffered many things (Luke 9:20-22)

Guess Jesus knew they were cowards.

You know, I even remeber Jesus hding himself on several occasions. (John 8:59)

Guess that good oh guy we know to be Lord was being deceitful cause he was hiding. You probably have a problem with that. Guess he should had just come on out since he had nothing to be ashamed of and let them kill him![/quote]
You need to stop this foolish babbling.
He told his disciples plainly "His time had not yet come."
There were not several times when Jesus hid.
There were a couple times when he went out a great while before dawn, found a place alone, and there prayed.

But you; you, are the coward, afraid to come out and identify your doctrine and what you believe. Jesus says that when he comes he will be ashamed of you.
He also says that those who deny him, he also will deny.
Are you denying him when you deny him his rightful place in the trinity?
You should give serious thought to that.

Good. You know that the "Son" by very definition is the second person of the trinity.

I know a Muslim who has the entire NT memorized and can quote any verse you ask him. Does that make him a Christian? Of course not!
Copying and pasting Scripture does no good if you are unable to explain them. In fact if that is all you do it only shows your ignorance. You must be able to explain your beliefs. What does it mean to be born again? Can you explain that in your own words. Are you born again? If so, how? When?

 

Yes he will. But you have not demonstrated to anyone here that you are not a tare, or that you are among the wheat. You have not demonstrated to anyone here why we should believe that you are a believer in Christ.

Jesus wasn't to ashamed of Peter was he. Gosh, ended up telling him to go feed his sheep and everything!

I'll take my chances with God on this one. You trying tobully me into revealing my personal life to you isnt going to work

Good try though.

And by the way, I'm sorry for being sarcastic in my post. If they come across insulting, I don't mean for all of them to![/quote]
Why is it so hard to tell us what you believe?
You can't define a Christian--biblically.
You can't define the new birth.
You don't know what it means to be justified, and if you are.

You don't come straight out and tell us your belief on the trinity.
IMO, you deny it.
You are afraid to tell us what you believe and who you align yourself with.
You show every mark of being aligned with a cult.

And that is your picture of God! Shame!

And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Matthew 7:23)

No, you haven't made me smile.
It is a pity the way that you act on this board.