Oneness versus the three-in-one.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by John Public, Oct 25, 2015.

  1. John Public

    John Public
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    Hello again. Grace to all the saints in Christ Jesus.
    As I was pondering a blog post by a oneness pentacostal reviewing a Cambridge University Press (CUP) King James Bible, it was very disturbing to read his other posts proving, in his estimation, oneness. What is oneness? The 1828 Noah Webster dictionary defines it as:
    (ref. http://webstersdictionary1828.com/Dictionary/Oneness accessed 25/10/15 0709)
    The 1677 Keach's Catechism opens with Q. 1. What is the first & best of beings? A. God is the first & best of beings. (Isaiah 44:6, Psalm 8.1, 97:9)

    So God is, hosanna!

    Question 2. What is the one cheif end of man?
    A. Man's chief end is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever (1 Corinthians 10:31; Psalm 73:25-26)

    I'll give you that Paul proclaimed, One Lord, one faith, one baptism. There is a wholeness to the faith. Thank God it is so!

    Q. 9. Are there more gods than one?
    A. There is but one only, the living & true God.
    (Deut. 6:4; Jeremiah 10:10)

    Therefore, all gods among the myriad are false, and glory be to the King the Lord God of Israel, his saints per Galatians 3.28-29 in the new testament, as he has revealed Himself to His creation.

    However, I cannot grant God just stopped there. It would be a lie; Thou shalt not bear false witness.

    Q. 10. How many persons are there in the Godhead?
    A. There are three persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one God, the same in essence, power, & glory.
    (1 Cor. 8.6; John 10:30; John 14.9; Acts 5:3,4; Matt. 28.19; 2 Cor. 13:14)


    That is seven whole scriptures to examine. Let us look at a few, three to four. I pray we would all examine these completely.
    Acts 5:3,4
    But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land? 4Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

    If God is just one, why did Peter fail to differentiate here, especially being the stone upon which Jesus built the church, John 1.42? In the same passage as he said "Holy Ghost" said he "God", so there is no error; the Holy Ghost is God!

    To Jewish chagrin, being exposed for their disbelief on Him, Jesus proclaimed in John 10.30, I & my Father are one. Does this need to be explained?! Jesus makes equal expressions or has witness made of Him in John 1.1-14, 18, as well as 5.16-18.
    Finally, let us look at 14.9, Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?

    As lagniappe, let us also consider at Genesis 1, and 1 John 5.7-8. If God created the heaven & earth, he did not read, "In the beginning, the Father", but "God".
    The Spirit sat over the void, formless earth awaiting commands from the other two members of the Godhead to form the earth. Guess Moses, God's friend whom personally saw his face and wrote his law must not have
    seen a reason to differentiate either between the Father, Son, as well as the holy Spirit.

    In the as it is sometimes called Johanine comma, it reads, including verses five plus six for context, 5Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?6This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.8And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.

    Frankly, I do not want just a single witness in heaven, one in earth. Eyewitness (except divine) testimony is profoundly unreliable; it is not admissible in court because of such in the US. However, the Spirit bears witness of Jesus, and those he has saved from damnation. At the same time does he bear witness with the Word, and the Father. As Cyprian or Tetrullian likwise in the first two centuries AD bear witness, the apostle John did not bear any separation either.

    What are yout thoughts? Is God just one, or triune?
     
    #1 John Public, Oct 25, 2015
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2015
  2. Van

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    Not sure the point of this thread, but the Trinity is the only view allowed to be espoused in this forum. Those that might argue against the trinity usually fall into two categories, those that deny the deity of Jesus and/or those that deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit.
     
  3. agedman

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    Deuteronomy says:
    4“Hear, O Israel! The LORD is our God, the LORD is one! 5“You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6“These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7“You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up. 8“You shall bind them as a sign on your hand and they shall be as frontals on your forehead. 9“You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates. (Deuteronomy 6)​
    The Lord Jesus said:
    28One of the scribes came and heard them arguing, and recognizing that He had answered them well, asked Him, “What commandment is the foremost of all?” 29Jesus answered, “The foremost is, ‘HEAR, O ISRAEL! THE LORD OUR GOD IS ONE LORD; 30AND YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH.’ (Mark 12)
    Believers do not worship three, but one.

    The trinity does not destroy the one.

    Believers are not polytheistic.
     
  4. John Public

    John Public
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    Apologies. The thread was misread. That is an interesting point about Deuteronomy.
     
  5. Jkdbuck76

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    One in essence, three in person.

    Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk
     
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  6. Yeshua1

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    Oneness theolgy has Jesus as being the father/Son/Holy Spirit, so pretty much Modualism, as One God taking on 3 seperate roles...

    Bible teaches One God, but also 3 seperate persons in the Godhead..
     
  7. Rippon

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    No, not at all. The Triunity is not composed of separate persons --but distinctions within the Godhead.
     
  8. percho

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    ἀλλ᾽ ἔρχεται ὥρα καὶ νῦν ἐστιν ὅτε οἱ ἀληθινοὶ προσκυνηταὶ προσκυνήσουσιν τῷ πατρὶ ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ καὶ γὰρ ὁ πατὴρ τοιούτους ζητεῖ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτόν πνεῦμα ὁ θεός καὶ τοὺς προσκυνοῦντας αὐτὸν ἐν πνεύματι καὶ ἀληθείᾳ δεῖ προσκυνεῖν John 4:23,24

    Did the Father (πατρὶ) who is said to be, Spirit the God, (πνεῦμα ὁ θεός) who is Holy, 1 Peter 1:15 send into the world the baby Jesus, his Son, in the flesh, through a woman, Gal 4:4, Matt 1:20, Matt 16:15-17, 1 John 4:2,3 and that the Son is also called the Holy and Just One, Acts 3:14, 22:14?
     
  9. robustheologian

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    Though I wouldn't use the term "separate" to describe the Trinity, (just for clarification) are you saying you wouldn't refer to the Trinity as God in three persons?
     
  10. Rippon

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    I say there is one God in three persons. Blessed Trinity!
     
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  11. robustheologian

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    Amen brother!!
     
  12. agedman

    agedman
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    In replying to another thread, I used Rev. 21. It shows the Father and the Son in the final estate.
    I saw no temple in it, for the Lord God the Almighty and the Lamb are its temple. And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon to shine on it, for the glory of God has illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb.​
    What is remarkable (to me, anyway) is that God and Christ are the temple (single) but the authority is divided into two responsibilities - God is the light and the Son is the Lamp.

    Where then is the Holy Spirit?
     

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