Open for discussion.

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by percho, Jul 4, 2012.

  1. percho

    percho
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    A few things we need to look at.

    First: At the water baptism of Jesus. When Jesus went into the water and was put under the water did that picture is death and burial? Did his coming straightway up out of the water picture his resurrection?
    Was it after this picture of death and resurrection that the Spirit of God in the form of a dove coming on him and remaining on him. This is followed with a declaration from heaven that Jesus is the Son of
    God.

    I also agree that it was an anointing as prophet and maybe even as priest and king but would have to consider some maybe conflicting verses to say that.

    I also believe because of Matthew 1:20 Jesus probably had the Holy Spirit from conception in Mary. However one has to consider this; Hebrews 4:15 last part but was in all points tempted like as [we are, yet] without sin. However. Isa. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all. For he hath made him sin for us, who knew no sin; Luke 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

    Could this sinless one who was made to be sin, by having the iniquity of the world laid upon him, ever hope to be in the presence of his Holy, Holy, Holy God and Father? A moment before death the wages of sin, dying thou shall surely die, he cried out two things; "My God my God why has thou forsaken me," and then, "Father unto thy hands I commend my spirit." He died.

    He died with the iniquity of the world on him, forsaken by the Spirit God who had begotten him in the virgin Mary.

    How long was he forsaken by God? How long was the spirit life, that comes from the Spirit God in the hands of his Father? We are cleansed by the blood, death of Jesus because our and the sin of the world was laid on him in his death, separated from his Father God. What made all that iniquity, that filth, that sin depart from the dead Jesus of Nazareth so that he could be in the presence of his Father and God again? If God the Father had not raised Jesus his Son from the dead we would still be in our sin and without hope. If that had happen, the faith would be void for there would be no grace. See 1 Cor 15:16-18. According to mercy he saved us, brought salvation to light: by washing of regeneration and renewing of Holy Spirit. Who was washed clean of the sin of the world by being made alive again renewed, received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit? Thou art my Son this day have I begotten (born) thee. Acts 13:33, Hebrews 1:5 Romans 1:4 The shed forth/pouring out of the Holy Spirit on us is our assurance of following Jesus in the regeneration. Eph. 1:13,14 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Matt. 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me in the regeneration, when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory,

    Faith was the faith of Jesus unto obedient death. Grace was God the Father washing the sin of the world from him by making alive again by Spirit Holy.
    Romans 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
     
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    The baptism of John the Baptist was not the same as Christian baptism. The baptism of John signified the beginning of Jesus' ministry that would lead Him to the cross.
    Jesus was quoting a Messianic psalm, demonstrating to those who were watching who He is. I don't believe He was ever forsaken by God.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. percho

    percho
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    Thank you for a response. 242 views and one response, Again thank you.

    I believe there were about eight questions in the OP.

    Was the water baptism of Jesus a prophetic picture of his death, his resurrection, his being given the promise of the Holy Spirit by the Father and his being declared the Son of God with power by the resurrection from the dead? Is that not the baptism he was yet to experience spoken of by Jesus in Luke 12:50?

    That Messianic Psalm was as true of Jesus and fulfilled in Jesus as was the Messianic Psalm Peter quoted on the day of Pentecost following the resurrection of Jesus from Hades. Psalms 16?
     
  4. quantumfaith

    quantumfaith
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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

    Psalm 22, if memory is correct. A Psalm of victory. I share you view of not believing that Jesus was ever forsaken by the Father.
     
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    Jesus was the sin bearer for the sins of the World, and while he was on the cross, he tasted "hell" to full extent as sinners will one day, as for first/only time, he experienced seperation from his father!
     
  6. percho

    percho
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    What moved the Father to reconcile with him being sin had separated them? How were they reconciled? What happened to all that sin lain on him by his Father? How long were they separated?

    Do these questions have scriptural answers?
     
  7. Catalyst

    Catalyst
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    Don't leave out the IF. Another big IF verse in this context, is IF the spirit of God indwells you, you are no longer in the flesh.

    So if you are in the flesh, you aren't yet to the point of claiming EITHER of these IFS.

    Rules of logic and English, 101.
     
  8. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    Sorry not to answer before. I don't think so.
    No, I don't think so.
    OK, Jesus was pointing toward Himself... Peter was pointing toward Jesus... no problem there.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  9. canadyjd

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    Where does scripture say Jesus tasted "hell"? I thought it says Jesus tasted "death".

    peace to you:praying:
     
  10. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
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    he was the sin bearer, he took all our iniquities, and the father 'crushed Him", as he bore the biiter cup of the full wrath of God towards sin!

    During that time, as the substitute for me and you before the father, God turned away, forsoke him, he experienced the full seperation from god all sinners will in hell!
     
  11. canadyjd

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    You didn't answer my question. Where does scripture say that Jesus tasted "hell"? Where does scripture say that Jesus was separated from God the Father when the sins where placed on Him?

    Such thinking is contrary to the Words of Jesus.

    John 8:28-29 "When you lift up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am He, and I do nothing on My own initiative, but I speak these things as the Father taught Me. (29) And He who sent Me is with Me; He has not left Me alone, for I always do the things that are pleasing to Him."

    John 16:32 "Behold an hour is coming, and has already come, for you to be scattered, each to his own home, and to leave Me alone; and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with Me."

    In both of these verses, Jesus is speaking of His crucifixion and how God the Father will not leave Him alone during that time.

    If you can show me the verses that say Jesus "tasted hell" and that God the Father turned His back on Jesus while He was on the cross and that Jesus was separated from the Father during that time, I'll reconsider my position.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  12. percho

    percho
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    But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
    He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, (Hades) neither his flesh did see corruption.

    I would say that the scriptures say he tasted of death for three days and three nights and the tasting took place in Hades.

    From whence Jesus was resurrected to life.

    Isa 59:2 But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid [his] face from you, that he will not hear.
    53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

    Could Jesus the Son of God go into the presence of his Father with all that iniquity lain on him?


    What happened to all that iniquity when it was lain on Jesus? How long do you believe all the iniquity of man that was put on Jesus remained on him?
    Is it still on Jesus today? If it was taken from Jesus after that it had been lain on him, what took it away?

    The blood, (death) of Jesus washed us from our sins. Rev 1:5 also and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.1 John 1:7

    I wonder what, "through washing of regeneration," washed away?

    My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? It is finished. `Father, to Thy hands I commit my spirit;' and these things having said, he breathed forth the spirit.

    He died. Was the spirit of him the very life of him? How long was he without his spirit.
     
  13. jdcanady

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    Ok, this looks like Hebrews 2...
    This I don't recognize.... help me out. Tell me which version you are using and where the passage is.
    That wasn't the question. Did God the Father abandon Jesus when He was on the cross. I don't think so.
    The Spirit of Jesus was separated from His humanity for 3 days (however you count the days). During that time, Jesus was in heaven with the Father. How do I know, because He repeatedly said that was where He was going.... back to the Father. He didn't say I'm going to take a 3 day detour into hell. He said I'm going back to the Father.

    Jesus told the thief on the cross that he would be with Him (Jesus) in paradise (another name for heaven) "today". That meant the very day they both died. He didn't say I'll see you there after 3 days in hell. He said he would be with Him "today".

    peace to you:praying:
     
  14. agedman

    agedman
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    Perhaps, you missed the scene in which the woman encountered Jesus in the garden area out side of the tomb just after the resurrection, and he said, "Jesus said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

    Later, appearing in the upper room, He showed his hands and side, and, the second time, even encourage Thomas to feel and touch the wounds. Apparently, the appearance before the Father was completed between the garden scene and the first appearance in the upper room.

    The Apostle Peter in Acts 2 quoting Psalm 16, speaks specifically that while Christ's body of flesh lay uncorrupted (undecayed) in the grave, His soul was in hell (sheol).

    Taken what Christ said on the cross to the thief and what Peter stated in Acts, it is obvious that the Lord Jesus Christ went to both hell and paradise, presenting Himself (IMO) as the completed sacrifice of the perfect sin offering.

    Paradise in the OT was not the heaven in which the saints are gathered under the alter and currently abide according to the Revelation.

    Paradise was as a "holding tank" (so to speak). For without the shed blood of Christ, no person could enter heaven, however, after the crucifixion the Scriptures record many graves being opened the dead walking in the streets. The Scriptures state in Isaiah and Habakkuk (if I recall correctly) that Hell continually enlarges itself to accommodate the dead descending into it.
     

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