Open Or Closed Communion

Brother Bob, do you not speak of practices in other churches in which you don't believe, in your opinion, they are doing right? I did qualify my statement by saying it was my opinion. I am the first to admit that I am as falable and prone to error as any other imperfect person, and my opinions are not the Word of God. They are what I conclude from my readiong of the Word of God, and what we do on message boards is to share our understanding. If we take offense every time someone shares an understanding that differs from our own, we will spend our whole lives feeling offended.

Now see, I cannot imagine for the life of me why you would say such a thing to me, a person you've never met. My personal view is that the lack of washing of feet is one of the great poverties in the churches today. It was not given by the Lord in the same was as communion, but it was nevertheless an important lesson that Christians today have a tendency to forget.

Now, the point of the washing of feet is humility, is it not? Not a false humility, which is no humility at all, but a true sense of the highest among us being the servant to all. Is that not the lesson? But I can wash all the feet I want, and take a haughty attitude toward my brother by assuming I am worthy to judge him or his motives, and I might as well not wash feet.

It would be better if you asked me what I believe, rather than deciding it in advance and then telling me what I believe. I'm open to talking about just about anything.

Yes, there is an ORB church that meets once a month in Melbourne. I have spoken with the moderator there, but I have not visted.

No, I haven't.

I don't believe I've spoken an ill word against the Old Regulars or Little Ida in all my time on this board. In fact, I don't even mention the name of the man I was referring to earlier who was the former moderator that ran off with a woman who wasn't his wife, because he is not here to defend himself - he's now dead - and I don't think it is right to spread that kind of talk about a dead man. I only mentioned it to show that no church is without their sinners among the saints. I attended Little Ida in the 1960's and my own mother's funeral was preached there, by the way, in 1984.

However, if I say that I believe churches are doing wrong by excluding believing Christians from their communion I don't see how that is attacking a specific church. There are many churches that practice that and believe they are doing right. They would believe I am wrong, but I wouldn't take that difference of opinion as a personal attack. Just look through the pages of scripture and you will see that even the apostles of Christ had disagreements among them. That should not be cause for offense.

 

You see, this could be a cause for offense. You would seem to be lumping me and other Christians who are not Old Regular Baptists in with the world. I don't take offense at it because I am accustomed to the Old Regular Baptist views on things, and I choose not to take offense at the things I don't agree with . Just like I don't take offense when I attend one of their meetings and I am required to sit down below the members, who sit up on an elevated platform above the others in the congregation. I might believe there are scriptures that teach against this, talking about where we should seat the lowest person who walks through the door and give him the best seat in the house and not elevate ourselves above him, but I try to understand where that practice comes from. And I choose not to take offense, even though some people might.

I take far greater offense at unbelievers who try to impede the gospel of Christ, and I'll fight all day over such as that.

 

You don't seem to know what the higher platform is for. It is so the voice of the singing and preacher reaches throughout the house. We have as many members who sit out in the house or more than sits on the stand. You take it as if we are putting ourselves higher than the congregation. You do judge the Old Regulars and do not hide it too well.

You say I would be calling you of the world. We believe the doctrine we preach and the practice we keep to be in accordance with scripture. We do not judge whether you are saved or not, but we do not think you are keeping what we believe is the practice God laid down for his church. If we believed you were keeping the practice, then we would change. One of us is wrong if we practice two or more different ways. If I believed like you do, I would join the Freewills, but I believe as the Old Regulars do.
Why would you want to commune with us anyway, when you said churches who practice a closed communion is not right.

You judge and say you are not. Either admit it or quit it. If you go in a church and do not understand the meaning for why a church practices something then ask. I don't think you have ever heard an Old Regular say they believe they are better than anyone. You speak very offensive words Sir.

I have had to use Freewill churches to preach funerals and many of them have a platform also, so the voice of the preacher and singers reach the back of the house. I never dreamed it crossed someone's mind we thought of ourselves higher than them by doing so. I think you have a complex.

You say that you never said anything about Old Regulars, but how would I have ever known that you knew the Little Ida Church and one of their Moderators running off with another man's wife, unless you told me. I was surprised that you even knew of Old Regulars. I am sorry, if any of them ever did anything wrong to you but if you think Old Regulars put themselves above others, you are wrong.
I also have married a couple in a Methodist church which had a platform. Also, all the churches on TV have platforms. Amazing!!

 

I don't know exactly what you guys are describing but we dn't let non-clergy in what we call the pulpit while we are in service. I thought this was normal practise?

 

Hi LeBuick;
Old Regulars have a raised platform about 10ft wide and the width of the church where the pulpit is and on the sides there are seats for singers and members if there is room. I have even let some unsaved sit there from time to time, especially if there are no other seats left in the house. It was started I am sure because of sound. The early churches did not have sound systems or accustics built in the ceilings so they had a raised platform for the preacher and singers for the benifit of those in the house so they could hear. The platform is about 8 inches higher than the rest of the floor.

BBob,

 

...what he said. Amen :thumbs:

Open for me.

 

1Corth 5:
8: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

Just because someone says they are a believer, don't make it so. You say that we are not to judge!

12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

I even have the remaining fruit of the vine and unleaven bread left over from communion be buried for I consider is sacred, after we have prayed and ask God to bless it as His blood and body.

 

Sounds like any Church to me but maybe I'm not picturing it right.

I preached at an old Church in the backwoods of LA that still had a sounding board hanging from the ceiling. I didn't know what it was until after the service but can say it did work. However, the Church was the size where you could wake up (shake) a sleeping member on the back pew without leaving the pulpit.

 

The board served two purposes, for sound and if you were not doing any good, it fell on your head.............

 

Brother Bob, I'm afraid you are letting anger get the better of you because I have judged nobody. I have pointed out something that is a practice in the ORB church that outsiders, unaccustomed to the ORB ways, might take offense at. To the uninitiated, separating members up on a raised platform could well be misunderstood. Surely you can see that. I did say that I don't take offense at such things because I know the ORBs. What I don't understand is why you have chosen to make this so personal? From my opening comments on this topic, in response to the question originally posed, you have accused me of somehow being against your specific church. I truly don't understand, but I will have to leave that in God's hands as I don't know what else to say to you.

That is the nature of two men belonging to different churches. Does that mean when they discuss what they believe scripture says to them that there has to be mud slung about? Can't reasonable Christians share their thoughts without immediately taking offense before even talking with the other person? Somehow, for some unknown reason, and without talking with me about it you decided that I was against the washing of feet. Actually, that sounded to me outright hostile. I would encourage you to engage in dialogue with me and all Christians before you make such judgements. But it is helpful to find a way to do it without taking everythign so personally.

You began taking offense to what I said when I had nothing whatsoever to say about the Old Regular Baptists. I was speaking about the general topic of this thread. You are the one who took my words, applied it to your specific church, and then continually look for ways to be offended by what I say. I did not have the Old Regulars in mind when I said what I said. I'm well aware of many churches that are not Old Regulars who practice closed communion. And yes, I believe they are doing wrong. But so what? Are you perfect? Do I have to be perfect? I will admit here and now that there is every possibility that my opinions on many things could be wrong. God does not demand that I have perfect understanding of all things. Even the apostles had disagreements, and yes, somebody had to be wrong. Do you think that caused them to treat each other in a hostile way? Jesus said the world would know us by our love, not by who we took communion with.

Now you psychoanalyze me as well. Most boards don't allow people to sling personal insults an one another. Unfortunately, hurling personal insults says far more about the hurler than the one being insulted, I'm afraid.

Well, we have discussed Little Ida in another thread on this very board. But just look back through this thread and re-read our exchanges. You brought up the Old Regulars. Once you did, I did address your comments. But you are the one who first applied my general comment about closed communion to your specific denomination.

You're comments to me are frankly unbelievable. I love the Old Regulars. My family were Old Regulars. When they asked me where to take my dead mother, I said to take her to the Old Regular church. I sat there all night long until the sun came up with sisters of that church who sang over her and mourned with me, someone they barely knew of. I do not undertand AT ALL what I have said or done to make you think I hate Old Regular Baptists. As I said, I attended as a little boy both Little Ida and the Dorton Creek church in Kentucky. I know them well. I did not have them in mind when I commented on closed communion. But yes, my understanding of scripture differs from the Old Regulars in several regards. That does not make me hate anybody. Good grief. I have to say, this is one of the more bizzarre and baffling conversations I've ever had on a message board.

 

Let me attempt to clarify. In the Old Regular Baptist churches I've attended, the members of the church sit on pews that are up on a raised platform surrounding the pulpit. It is sometimes called "the stand". Men sit on one side of the preacher, and women on the other side. The preachers usually sit behind the pulpit. People who are not members sit out in the regular pews and the preacher is facing them, surrounded by the members of the church to his left, right, and behind him. If you were to install pews up on the platform where the preacher stands in other churches and had the members of that church sit up there with the preacher while non-members sat out in the church, that would give you an idea.

I never said, by the way, that this is a good or bad thing. It is the way they do it. What I was trying to point out is that to a visitor this might look like the members are somehow "above" others. You might be a devout Christian, but not a member of their church, and you you'd have to sit out in front of the preacher. Some might think that this implied they were sinners of the world if they are not used to the Old Regular Baptist ways, and they could choose to take offense at it. As I said, I understand it so it doesn't offend me. I personally think it is better not to even create such an appearance. But you can see the reaction experssing such an opinion gets.

 

I have no idea why you are bringing "anger" into this. I am angry at no one. You made a statement of which you said that churches who practice closed communions are not "right".
I do take offense at you calling my church "not right". I am not angry, I am just answering you and telling you how I received your comments. You say I can't see how some would take the raised platforms, when most churches that exist have raised platforms. I don't know if I know of a church that does not have a raised platform. I sure would hate to have to try and preach where I would be below some of the congregation and couldn't see them, except the front row. There is a reason for raised platform and it is a practical reason. Please don't take my statements as me being angry, I am just giving you an answer for the faults you find in the Old Regulars.

You say, you love the Old Regulars but yet you tell what you find wrong with them and not what you find right.
Yes, I do defend them, for it is my home and my church that I love dearly. We have our ways, which were handed down from generation to generation.

I tried to post a nice post, but that didn't work. You kept coming back at me as I am angry and unbelievable. I feel obligated to answer your faults with me.

 

As many members as can get on the stand sit there and it is to help sing. Depends on the crowd, but as many members sit in the house part as in the stand, and this is the last time I will be saying anything about our seating for this is the first time in 34 years of preaching I have ever heard this comment!
One time I did have someone ask me though. Oh, you belong to that church where you have to be invited, so who knows what some will think. If I spent my time trying to please every one, I would tear out the stand, then I would build it back, then tear it down, then.................

 

If I may ask Bro Bob, what is the purpose of seperating the men and women?

Also, do you have a chior or any members who regularly sing? I know you sing with no music but it sounds like you only sing congregational songs? i know you do solo's because I heard the ones you had posted. Great voice by the way.

 

Communion. It is time for communion.

 

Keep down the fighting..........:laugh: :laugh:

Seriously;
The church did not separate the men from the women, it is something they do on their own, or at least that is all I know. Also, it is of great comfort to the preacher to have the deacons and brothers up close to pray for him and show encouragement for him. I know it helps me anyway.
As far as singing, our whole congregation is encouraged to sing, including the unsaved if they will. The more that sing, the prettier it is. We do the "lineing of songs" as you have heard of no doubt. I am sure you have seen on TV, some of the churches on Sunday with usually the other preachers and some members sitting up on the platform.

The only solo singing is done by me or some other preacher when he comes to the stand before he preachs.

Thanks for the good comment on my singing.

Saggywoman;

I agree, don't know how we end up talking about our seating. Yes I do too, sorry.

 

Open...to qualified believers...because the NT doesn't make a denominational distinction.

this should be fun

 

I love a Church that talks back also. I'll ask them, "you gonna pray with me"?

You made me think of Deacon Booker who died this year at 96 years old. That man loved good preaching and didn't mind letting you know while you were preaching. I think he was the reason I needed a mic

If it is like one person leading out with a line to a song then the rest repeat. singing in unison then yes, I am familiar. My favorite;

Father I stretch my hand to thee

Church

No other help I know

Church

If thou withdraw thyself from me

Church

Oh whither shall I go

Church

As for communion, we call ours closed however we let baptized believer partake in the supper. It is "closed" to the Body of Christ. So we would let you take communion if you were present at our Church for the Lord Supper. We take your word for if you have been baptized. This upsets some of our Deacons who want us to distinguish dunking from sprinkling.

Let everyone examine himself...

 

Funny you should mention this.. because I grew up Closed communion.. but when I did the research to write my ordination paper... I also found that my view was tied to the way I saw the church...

And because I see the church as all true believers throughout all time.. I came down on the side of Open...

If I believed that "church" meant only local... I would go with Closed.

There are good arguments on both sides though.

 

I sometimes wonder how far back we could search and find closed communion in our church. I know it went back in the 1800's.