A very prolific poster on this board in an another thread entitled Predestination: Meaning and Application noticeably avoided some of the more problematic Scriptures for his position? I sincerely believe the position I hold to is the closest to an overall biblical worldview that is available. Sure you will not get 100% agreement among all reformed theologians on everything, but we agree on the major issues and more importantly our agreement is with Scripture. We do not gloss over difficult passages because we have no stomach for them. We have taken the Bible at face value and allowed it to shape our views. Even so, I will admit, as I have here that I am sympathetic to those who find my views troubling. That means I can appreciate the difficulty in coming to a reformed view or high view of the sovereignty of God. Despite the constant arguing, I have repeatedly stated that I believe that faith is essential for salvation and have offered that general revelation goes out to all people. However, having said that I believe the gospel is indispensable or essential in coming to faith in Christ. Some on the other hand have argued pointedly that everyone is free to chose, and that God gives the gospel to all people. So the notion of God creating some who are not elect completely discredits this view. Freewillers do not have a sound explanation for the following, leaving off the ones that have been disputed on the other thread these still remain. We are not just talking about one Scripture taken in isolation. These are from OT and NT and with various authors. The evidence or witness of Scripture does not favor a freewill (mis)interpretation. “Jehovah hath made everything for its own end; Yea, even the wicked for the day of evil,” Prov. 16:4. “For God did put in their heart to do His mind, and to come to one mind, and to give their kingdom unto the beast, until the word of God should be accomplished,” Rev. 17:17. We also see “vessels of wrath” which by the Lord were “fitted unto destruction,” were “endured with much long suffering” in order that He might “show His wrath, and make His power known”; and with these are contrasted the “vessels of mercy, which He afore prepared unto glory” in order “that He might make known the riches of His glory” upon them (Rom. 9:22, 23). “Behold, ye despisers, and wonder, and perish; For I work a work in your days, A work which ye shall in no wise believe, if one declare it unto you,” Acts 13:41. “For this cause they could not believe, for that Isaiah said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and He hardened their heart; Lest they should see with their eyes, and perceive with their heart, And should turn, And I should heal them,” John 12:39, 40. “For judgment came I into this world, that they that see not may see; and that they that see may become blind,” John 9:39. “I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou didst hide these things from the wise and understanding, and didst reveal them unto babes,” Matt. 11:25. “But Sihon king of Heshbon would not let you pass by him; for Jehovah thy God hardened his spirit, and made his heart obstinate, that He might deliver him into thy hand, as at this day,” Deut. 2:30. “For it was of Jehovah to harden their hearts, to come against Israel in battle, that He might utterly destroy them, as Jehovah commanded Moses.” Joshua 11:20. “For the Scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth,” Rom. 9:17 (see also Ex. 9:16) I would respect you so much more if you could just admit that these passages are difficult for your position, because they clearly give your position a great challenge. A challenge that you either will address or be found guilty of wanting to avoid altogether. One last warning, and this goes for both Calvinist and Freewillers, be careful that you do not love a theological system more than your Savior. If I could be found, along with the hundreds of historic figures whose intellect and faith far surpass my own, unfaithful to a biblical world view, I would want to correct and fall in line with Scripture. Simply put that has not happened in my extensive studies of theology nor has it happened since I recently came to BB. I am not wanting to offend anyone here but I believe my view of predestination to be biblical. It is the truth that I am after. Anyone care to address these passages? Feel free… (slight pun intended :>) NOTE TO THE POWERS THAT BE, i.e. WHO EVER LOCKED THE OTHER THREAD. When the discussion does not meet with your approval try offering direction or censorship, but locking down a thread that had over 500 replies and more posts than any other thread on the Baptist Board seems a bit self defeating, not to mention it punishes the people who are not violating any rules. Just because some on this board do follow the rules does not justify nor warrant silencing what was otherwise a very usual exercise. Tell you what, give me moderator powers and I will make people tote the line without locking down a thread. I would ban violators and repeat offenders or simply remove posts that were in violation. One other thing is that in going back and reading through the posts on Theology, the only other thread that got locked was also on predestination. Bibleboy who is a moderator did not come out in favor of the views of the person who started the thread. One is left to imagine, without knowing, that Baptist Board is anti-Calvinistic if you keep locking down threads that deal with predestination. I hope not but the solution is not to lock thread but do the work of moderating them. In my humble opinion for what it is worth etc. etc.