Opinion wanted

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Greg Linscott, Aug 27, 2004.

  1. Greg Linscott

    Greg Linscott
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    I recently had someone take exception to my quoting 2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV) and saying "thoroughly furnished" rather than "throughly furnished." I'm wondering if this is a case of straining at a gnat, or if there are others here who would be truly bothered by this. I'm especially curious to hear the reaction of the KJV defenders...
     
  2. Marcia

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    I just looked up "throughly" in the online Merriam-Webster and it says that it is archaic for
    So basically, saying "thoroughly" is the same as "throughly" except that "throughly" is archaic. I guess if one believes archaic 17th century English is better, one would argue for "throughly." I think this is straining "at" a gnat (that's a joke from another thread).

    They mean the same thing but people would undoubtedly understand "thoroughly" more than "throughly."
     
  3. pinoybaptist

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    Gosh. I can't believe what I'm reading, Greg.
     
  4. natters

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    I've seen that objection before as well on this word and verse, as well as a few others. What makes it kind of interesting is that it's not conclusive if this change is really a different word or if its an "updated spelling" of the same word.
     
  5. Greg Linscott

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    Here is something interesting... I found a KJV Gift and Award Bible that belonged to my wife as a little girl that had "thoroughly" in the text. The KJV text in my copy of Parson's QuickVerse software also has "thoroughly."
     
  6. Pastor KevinR

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    One of my KJV's has it in Psalm 51:2 as well. "Wash me throughly..."
     
  7. rsr

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    This is, perhaps, more common than one would have supposed.

    BEWARE COUNTERFEIT KING JAMES BIBLES
     
  8. natters

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    In 1 Cor 10:11, some KJVs have "ensample", some have "example".

    In 1 Samuel 29:2, some KJVs have "rereward", some have "rearward".

    In Matthew 26:39, some KJVs have "further", some have "farther"

    In Mark 12:1, some KJVs have "winefat", some have "winevat".

    In Revelation 12:12, some KJVs have "inhabiters", some have "inhabitants".

    In Job 41:18, some KJVs have "sneezes", some have "neesings".

    There are more ensamples (examples), but I don't have an exhaustive list handy.
     
  9. GrannyGumbo

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    The way I've always had it explained to me by my pastors is "throughly" means to go inside as well as the outside and "thoroughly" is outside only.
     
  10. Ed Edwards

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    Crosswalk.com
    has 11 each "throughly"
    and 2 each "thoroughly"

    Ex 21:19 (KJV-crosswalk)
    If he rise again, and walk abroad upon his staff, then shall he that smote him be quit: only he shall pay for the loss of his time, and shall cause him to be thoroughly healed.

    2Ki 11:18 - Show Context
    And all the people of the land went into the house of Baal, and brake it down; his altars and his images brake they in pieces thoroughly, and slew Mattan the priest of Baal before the altars. And the priest appointed officers over the house of the LORD.


    BibleGateway.com
    has 9 each "throughly"
    and 4 each "thoroughly"

    "thoroughly" at:
    Genesis 11:3
    Exodus 21:19
    2 Kings 11:18
    2 Timothy 3:17

    But this is an improvement on the original language?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Ed Edwards

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    What does your
    Bible say, Sister GrannyGumbo.

    Two different on-line sources vary:

    Crosswalk.com has 11 each "throughly"

    Ge 11:3
    Job 6:2
    Ps 51:2
    Jer 6:9
    Jer 7:5
    Jer 50:34
    Eze 16:9
    Mt 3:12
    Lu 3:17
    2Co 11:6
    2Ti 3:17

    Crosswalk.com has 2 each "thoroughly"

    Ex 21:19 (KJV-crosswalk)
    2Ki 11:18 - Show Context


    BibleGateway.com has 9 each "throughly"

    Job 6:2
    Psalm 51:2
    Jeremiah 6:9
    Jeremiah 7:5
    Jeremiah 50:34
    Ezekiel 16:9
    Matthew 3:12
    Luke 3:17
    2 Corinthians 11:6

    BibleGateway.com has 4 each "thoroughly"

    Genesis 11:3
    Exodus 21:19
    2 Kings 11:18
    2 Timothy 3:17

    At least both speak of the same set of 13 references. :eek:
     
  12. GrannyGumbo

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    I believe where the words "throughly" and "thoroughly" are used is exactly where they're supposed to be used.
     
  13. natters

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    GrannyGumbo said "I believe where the words "throughly" and "thoroughly" are used is exactly where they're supposed to be used."

    But the issue is that some KJVs use "throughly" where other KJVs use "thoroughly" - so when you say they're used exactly where they're supposed to be used, in which KJV do you mean?
     
  14. Marcia

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    "Throughly" and "thoroughly" mean the same thing.

    "Throughly" was apparently the earlier form of "thoroughly." I don't think it was a mistake or typo since there was such a word.

    Maybe we should also say, "Suffer Johnny to spend the night at Jimmy's tonight," instead of "Let Johnny spend the night at Jimmy's" since the 17th century word for "let" or "allow" is "suffer. :D

    Or I guess it should be, "Suffer Johnny to spendeth the night at Jimmy's." [​IMG]
     
  15. Greg Linscott

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    It is interesting that the Greek word underlying "thoroughly (or throughly- take your pick) furnished" is exartizo- one Greek word that the translators used two English words to convey the meaning. Strong's defines it as "to finish out (time); figuratively to equip fully (a teacher):—accomplish, thoroughly furnish." The same word also occurs in Acts 21:5, and is rendered "accomplished."
     
  16. Ed Edwards

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    Genesis 11:3
    BibleGateway, thoroughly
    Crosswalk, throughly
    KJV1611, thorowly

    2 Timothy 3:17
    BibleGateway, thoroughly
    Crosswalk, throughly
    KJV1611, throughly

    What does "thorowly" mean? [​IMG]
     
  17. Ransom

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    Greg Linscott said:

    I recently had someone take exception to my quoting 2 Timothy 3:17 (KJV) and saying "thoroughly furnished" rather than "throughly furnished." I'm wondering if this is a case of straining at a gnat, or if there are others here who would be truly bothered by this.

    The sort of people who would be bothered by this are the same sort who tear their hair out when they see "Saviour" spelled without the U.

    The correct response is to smile, say "So good to hear your insight this morning," and continue with your lesson/reading as originally planned.
     
  18. rsr

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    This is yet another complaint that's common. American publishers have taken the liberty of changing -our endings to -or endings ( saviour vs. savior, colour vs. color)

    I find it humourous, or perhaps dolorous, that such an attempt is made to emphasize the connexion of American spelling with biblical corruption. A theater of the absurd, a labour of confusion.
     
  19. Ransom

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    I find it humourous, or perhaps dolorous, that such an attempt is made to emphasize the connexion of American spelling with biblical corruption.

    It's ironic that the nearly inspired, beloved-by-KJV-onlyists-everywhere 1828 Webster's dictionary spells it Savior. In fact, the non-Satanic, 7-lettered spelling with the Holy U is not even listed.
     
  20. Greg Linscott

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    Granny, did they give you any basis for where they got this information? This actually does help me understand this person's concerns, but I haven't been able in any of my research to find even one dictionary (including Websters 1828) that makes any type of distinction between the two spellings.
     

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