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Opposing the 7th day Sabbath of the Lord Thy God

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by BobRyan, Mar 27, 2008.

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What is your solution to God's 7th Day Sabbath? (multiple answers allowed)

  1. Limited origin: Evolution (or some other story) get's around a Genesis application for man

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%

  2. Creation account is literal - Sabbath sanctified in Genesis for mankind

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%

  3. Limited Scope: Sabbath is for the Jews - it is the day of "Moses" given to the Jews

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%

  4. The Sabbath is the "Day of the Lord thy God" given to mankind

    6 vote(s)
    35.3%

  5. Limited Law of God: Ten commandments eliminated or downsized

    2 vote(s)
    11.8%

  6. We "establish the Law" by Faith. Law written on the heart not downsized or dead

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%

  7. Other - not listed here for getting around the Sabbath problem

    10 vote(s)
    58.8%

  8. Isaiah 66 "From Sabbath to Sabbath all mankind will worship" OT and NT intent by God

    4 vote(s)
    23.5%
Multiple votes are allowed.
Top Posters
Page 4 of 7
  1. Beth

    Beth New Member

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    If you are in Christ

    If you are in Christ, you are resting in the Sabbath.

    Hebrews 4:7 Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
    8 For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
    9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
    10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
    11 ΒΆ Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.

    Anyone can worship on any day they wish, IMO. Sunday, Saturday, Monday, Tuesday.....it is no longer a day which is the Sabbath, but it is the Lord who IS the Sabbath.
     
    #61 Beth, Mar 31, 2008
  2. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Beth, you are anulling the VERY SCRIPTURE you are quoting! How can you?
     
    #62 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 31, 2008
  3. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Beth, I sympathise with you, for I can clearly see how you could make that big mistake! It is because this was what you have read, as if God's Word: "9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God."

    I assure you, you have read the word of a fickle 'translator'. Go back to the AV, and read that text again. Even though I have the greatest respect and admiration for the KJV, this rendering is pitiable. It is worse than pitiable, because it is a blatant contradiction in itself. You see, the original says 'a keeping of the Sabbath Day remains for the People of God"; now the AV 'translates' "a keeping of the Sabbath Day", with, "a rest for the People of God". Were readers able to have the original constantly before their eyes while reading the AV, what would they conclude? Just what I have pointed out, wouldn't they? That "a keeping of the Sabbath Day", is, "a rest for the People of God"! But no one reads their trusted Version so; and so they are deceived into believing that "a keeping of the Sabbath" would actually imply a rejection of "a rest for the People of God"! It is no easy matter; the greater is one's responsibility to arrive at a right understanding of God's Word!
     
    #63 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
  4. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    So, No, 'If you are in Christ, you are resting in the Sabbath' won't do. If you are in Christ, you may rest on the Sabbath for the dual reason in this text given for reason for one's doing so, which is, "If so that Jesus had given them rest" (first aspect, verse 8) and, "For He that is entered into His Own rest as God from His Own works rested" (second aspect, verse 10). Dual single reason, full reason, only reason, and FINAL reason, "FOR: IF SO .... He shall NOT again speak of another day" of salvation. Christ shall not again come to once more give opportunity for us or any ever again, unto salvation. "In these LAST days, God", "through the SON", "THUS CONCERNING THE SEVENTH DAY SPAKE, and God the Seventh Day from all His Works (through and in the Son) RESTED." It is this 'rest' - the 'katapausis'-'rest' of God in Christ, that is offered you this day "today", so harden not your heart; Christ won't come again to work your redemption. He has finished it; "And THEREFORE remains for the People of God their keeping of the Sabbath Day". (I speak to 'you', as to me myself.)
     
    #64 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 31, 2008
  5. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Notice that Paul argues in Phil 3 and in Acts 21 and numerous times beyond that "I AM a Pharisee" instead of "I changed religions", "I AM a Jew" instead of "I changed religions".

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #65 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
  6. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    As has already been mentioned --

    NO worship service at all mentioned for 1Cor 16:1

    Acts 20 - an "incident" of a farewell event and a possible communion service on "week-day one" not on "the Lord's Day" and no mention of "As was our custom we met on the Lord's Day in remembrance of the resurrection of our Lord".

    Not once in all of scripture is that ever stated.

    Yet that sunday-Lord's day connection is mentioned among those who "believe it" every month if not every week.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #66 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
  7. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    This is some of the silliest evasion and talk-around you have done on this board.

    Do non-sabbath keepers know God if they believe in his son? Yes or No?
     
    #67 Alcott, Mar 31, 2008
  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Obviously - SDAs have always said that non-Sabbath keeping Christians are "saved".

    Obviously it makes perfect sense to see that "walking as Christ walked" taken to the point of "ALSO" keeping Christ our Creator's 7th day memorial of HIS work in Creation -- is at the very LEAST "consistent".

    So far I state only the "obvious" and your only response is to complain about it to the point of whining that I am not "condeming enough people" -- THAT my friend is the "silly" aspect of the discussion.

    AND it is at the very least "instructive" for the unbiased objective reader.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #68 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
  9. targus

    targus New Member

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    Not true. SDA's don't believe that anyone is "saved".

    Theirs is a works based system.
     
    #69 targus, Mar 31, 2008
  10. Alcott

    Alcott Well-Known Member
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    You really answer the questions, don't you?...
    Do non-sabbath keepers know God if they believe in his son? Yes or No?

    Besides refusing to answer yes or no, nothing is obvious about your statement.

    Yes or No... are those Christians(?) who do not keep the sabbath breaking a commandment?
    Yes or No... if they are, do they-- or can they-- know God anyway, in spite of what I John 2 says?
     
    #70 Alcott, Mar 31, 2008
  11. donnA

    donnA Active Member

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    The way I see it, I can not possibly vote in your poll. It is so biased it's pitiful that it tries to look like a poll. Even the 'other' option is not usable. The poll assumes that if the voter does not agree with you they are anti biblical.
     
    #71 donnA, Mar 31, 2008
  12. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Alcott:
    "Do non-sabbath keepers know God if they believe in his son? Yes or No?"

    GE
    May I phrase your question so, 'Do they who believe in the Son, know God? Yes or No?' And the answer is easy, Yes!
    But do they who believe in the Son and are known of the Father, necessarily know about Sabbath-keeping? Then the answer - from the point of view of the Scriptures - should be most evident, Yes! But since everyone reads what he gets to read in the Scriptures, that answer has completely lost its self-evidence.
     
    #72 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 31, 2008
  13. Gerhard Ebersoehn

    Gerhard Ebersoehn Active Member
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    Bethelassoc
    Why wouldn't Paul and the other apostles continue preaching on the Sabbath, everybody was going to be there, right? It makes sense seeing that the custom hadn't changed yet if the temple was still there.

    GE
    What had the existence of the temple to do with the Believers' worship on the Sabbath Days? Not even do we read that on Pentecost the Believers worshipped in the temple; not even of the Day of atonement did the Believers worship in the temple. The Christian Community took the Synagogues over, so to speak. The entire Synagogue mostly - it seems - have become the Christian Church. So your hopes are disappointed; you cannot get away from the to you very annoying fact the Christian Church existed in and as the 'Jewish' Synagogue or 'Church'!
     
    #73 Gerhard Ebersoehn, Mar 31, 2008
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    If by that you mean "they don't believe in OSAS" then - that has already been established here -- they don't. And neither do about half a dozen other non-SDA posters here.

    What is your "point"???

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #74 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
  15. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Yes - in the most obvious manner possible.

    The answer is they can be saved. I never argue that all non-Sabbath keepers or that all Sabbath-keepers are saved.

    The obvious conclusion (GIVEN that they are saved as has been stated repeatedly) is that they must know God for how else can they be saved?

    What part of this -- is not "obvious to you"???????

    Ok - so you are still in the fog.

    Not sure how you manage to stay there.

    Is this the part where you are confused? You want to know if "it is good to break the Ten Commandments"???

    James says "if you break one -- you break them all" but in your question you seem to ask "yes but is that wrong".

    Yes it is wrong just like it is wrong for Catholics to use images in worship service.

    But I do not argue that all Catholics are lost nor that all Sunday-keepers are lost because AS God said "to him who knows to do right and does it not - to him it is sin". James 4:14 - The very fact that you keep asking if it is wrong to break God's TEN Commandments EVEN when Paul says "But what matters is keeping the commandents of God" 1Cor 7 - testifies to the confused "fog" that exists among many Christian groups on this subject.

    How can you be missing that point -- even if you missed all others here?

    the SAME James that says "to break one commandment is to break them all" - says "to him who KNOWS to do right and does it not - to him it is sin"

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #75 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
  16. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    When the NT saints read the NT letters quoting heavily from the "scriptures" (that would be the OT for those in Rio Linda) do you suppose they were being told "scripture is not meant for Gentiles to read"??

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #76 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
  17. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Tell me, Do you have Scripture to demonstrate that Christians worshiped on the Sabbath as the Lord's Day?

    Nothing but a slightling of the inspired penman.
     
    #77 TCGreek, Mar 31, 2008
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hmm - that would be page 4 ...

    I then observe that in Acts 20 -- the one time when we do see a clear reference to a Christian meeting on "week-day-one" for Paul was "departing the next day and the sermon was going long into the night" that it is "instructive" to the extent that we do NOT see the author making the same statements about "we meet on this Lord's Day - week-day-one as is our custom each week in honor of the resurrection of our Lord"... you know - the same way it is done WEEKLy today by those who actually believe that week-day-one is to be called "the Lord's Day".

    Are you saying that to "notice" this gap in the argument for "week-day-one" is to be unkind to NT authors (as if we can blame THEM for the man made traditions that came along after them??))

    Such a solution would be a "week-day-one solution at all costs to scripture" -- I for one can not go there.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #78 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I just want one Scripture. I'm not greedy. :thumbs:



    What day was Jesus raised on? What day would that be on our present calender?
     
    #79 TCGreek, Mar 31, 2008
  20. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Jesus was raised on week-day-one. In our present Calendar that is Sunday -- though it could have been late Saturday night and would still qualify as "week-day-one" using God's Bible method of calculating days.

    So when we find "Sabbath after Sabbath " meetings in Acts 13 and NO reference at all in all of the NT to "week-day one after week day one" meetings -- it is "instructive".

    When we find "THE Seventh day" STILL referenced by NT authors by it's title of honor "the Sabbath" in Acts 13 and Acts 17 and elsewhere - and not ONE single reference in all of scripture to "week-day-one IS the Lord's Day" -- it is "instructive" to the unbiased objective reader.

    When we find in Acts 15 that the dispute about Gentiles vs Jews and the need to be fully informed about scripture -- James observes that the scriptures as written by Moses are already available to them being "preached every Sabbath" so that they only need to be reminded of a few details regarding food offerred to idols and the OT prohibition of eating meat with blood in it. This meant that just as Gentiles were not required to be circumcised in the OT -- neither would they have that burden added to them in the NT -- for the rule was to be "scripture" not the tradition of the Jews.

    The point remains.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
    #80 BobRyan, Mar 31, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 31, 2008
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