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Options in Baptism

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Nov 19, 2003.

  1. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    timothy, you are not really Harold Camping,pretending to be Timothy, [​IMG] [​IMG] are you ?
     
  2. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

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    Uh, I don't follow you. That's the guy that thinks the church age is over, correct?

    Jesus equates baptism with pouring, and baptizo does not necessarily mean immersion. That's all I'm saying here.
     
  3. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Clarification:

    Jews buried the dead face down. Hence face forward baptism. It would be AWKWARD for me to work with the female in that position - way too much contact . .

    Also many groups have trine Baptism - once down in the name of the Father, then the Son, then the Spirit.
     
  4. timothy 1769

    timothy 1769 New Member

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    When my wife used to periodically attend the mikvah she would dunk herself straight down. There would be an attendant there to make sure every bit of her, even every hair, was properly submerged and that the dunking was otherwise kosher. There are a billion rules. For example if she was pushing her lips together too tightly she had to do it all over again as this caused a little bit of the skin around her mouth to not get wet :rolleyes:
     
  5. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    No, he does not think the church age is over. He knows it. ;) In fact, because he no longer believes God's people should be gathered and functioning as a church with all the trappings of one (officers, ordinances and titles), he no longer advocates baptism. But, when questioned about whether baptism should be immersion, sprinkling, or pouring, he says it should be sprinkling, and uses the same scriptures you used. Personally, I think most of what he is teaching is wrong if not downright heretical.
    Forget my remarks about you being him, I was just kidding. [​IMG]
     
  6. Debby in Philly

    Debby in Philly Active Member

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    A friend of mine is a "missionary to the Jew" here in the city. His group functions as a church, or Messianic congregation. When his group has a baptism, it is done in a swimming pool, and they call it a mikvah, as though that were simply the Hebrew word for baptism. Of course, it is explained to all present what has happened in the person's life, and the meaning of the act. It's a great witness to those who attend.
     
  7. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I, too, have had to repeat a mikvah because my hair (not all that long, but I'm 6'5") floated on the water and I was not deemed kasher.

    I learned to squat down deep!

    BTW, Joseph Smith was so taken by this nude immersion witnessed by an official that he incorporated it into Mormonism.

    It is not talked about much out here in Mormon land!
     
  8. rlvaughn

    rlvaughn Well-Known Member
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    Method - backward, Jews and others may have buried their dead face down, but we don't; I don't know any reason that forward would unscriptural (theological basis? don't know of any unless someone could prove that God only approves of burials on one's back)

    Number - once; interpreting the command by what the apostles practiced gives me no indication that trine immersion was ever involved (theological basis? follow New Testament orthopraxy)

    Person - by an ordained elder or deacon; self baptism never occurred in the New Testament (theological basis? practical basis)

    Mode - dip or immerse; the preponderence of the evidence of the meaning and use of the word, and the practice as recorded in the New Testament favors immmersion (theological basis? baptism represents the believer's death and resurrection with Christ, Rom. 6, etc.)

    Locale - running water; I don't believe a baptistry makes a baptism unscriptural, but I prefer that Baptists be seen publicly burying their dead (theological basis? testimonial and practical basis)

    Subject - believers, believers, believers (theological basis? the doctrine of salvation by grace; the doctrine of the church as a body of believers; etc.)

    Formula - in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost; not usually an issue among Baptists, but "oneness" and some other groups delete the trinitarian formula (theological basis? the doctrine of the Tri-unity of God)
    Though I would not reject some of the variations (e.g., forward immersion, baptistry), I would not give the candidates a choice of how I would baptize them. I used to give a choice between the baptistry and running water.

    I would also, as a practical matter, urge those who may not have a strong conviction in the particulars to practice what would be most acceptable generally. For example, most Baptists would probably reject self baptism, and perhaps quite a few would reject baptisms not performed by ordained ministers. I do not know of any Baptists that would reject a baptism because it was performed by an ordained minister. Knowing that, why not just limit the administrator of baptism to ordained ministers? Once again, I do not know of any Baptists that believe baptisms in running water are unscriptural. I know a few who do not believe in using baptisteries. Why not just practice something that is acceptable to all and baptize in running water?
     
  9. R. Charles Blair

    R. Charles Blair New Member

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    Grace - If baptism is not under the Lord's authority as expressed in His body, the local, visible congregation of scripturally immersed believers, then any heresy or notion may creep in without our recognizing it, or really being able to stop it. When Philip went to Samaria, the church of which he was a member (Jerusalem) heard of the Lord's blessing there and sent "a committee" (Peter and John)to be sure of continuity in doctrine and fellowship. Philip did not refuse them, but recognized that continuity. So when he, still under the authority of the Lord through that Jerusalem church, immersed the eunuch, it was still under the Lord's authority expressed through His body, and so missionaries today should be sent by local churches and responsible to the Lord through the local church of which they are a part. Otherwise, we have no simple defense against doctrinal error or, for that matter, immoral conduct. But a church may authorize that father to baptize his child, etc., if that seems wise.

    Alexander Campbell was the organizer of what is now called "the Church of Christ" or "Churches of Christ," with subsequent groups like "the Christian Church," "Disciples of Christ," etc.
    All evidently teach some form of works salvation, baptismal regeneration, loss of salvation, etc.
    The only "baptism" Mr. Campbell had was at the hands of a Baptist minister who acted independently, with no church involved. While heresy may come from many directions, the lack of church involvement in baptism makes it easier to err in doctrine.
    Wishing you His best, Charles - Rom. 8:28
     
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