Order of Events in Revelation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Mel Miller, Mar 28, 2006.

  1. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Friends,

    I propose the indictment and verdict of the Middle Path's Tribunal, Act Two of the Temple Drama, Seal 7, occurs between the Holocaust of Trump #6 and triumphant Coronation of Christ in Trump #7!

    While I am inserting this paragraph at my website on March 28 of 2006, I also wrote in March of 2003, in Meditation #39 that Seals 6 and 7 occur between the 6th and 7th Trumpets.

    My actual words were: "The armies of Plagues 6 and 7 cross the Euphrates River before Seals 6 and 7 open and all four of these events occur between the 6th and 7th Trumpets"!

    If this order maintains through our discussion,
    there can be no Resurrection and Rapture of ALL the Saints until the Beast's armies gather to
    Armageddon and the 7th Trumpet sounds that

    1) "God's wrath has come" and
    2) It's the "appointed time to judge the dead in Christ and to reward the prophets and saints and all who fear God, both small and great, and to destroy the destroyers of earth". Rev.11:18.

    The only conclusion we can make is that the
    Coronation of Christ, the First Resurrection of Rev.20:4-5 and His "gathering of of all the
    Elect from earth to heaven" occur on the Day
    He comes to destroy the wicked at Armageddon.

    On that Day Christ will be King over all the
    nations; but He will reign in heaven as well
    as over the earth while the Martyrs "serve God in heaven and reign with Christ in heaven for 1000 years". Rev.20:4-5; Rev.7:14-17.

    The Martyrs receive the highest possible reward
    given to the Church. They will have three
    names, including the name of the New Jerusalem
    for 1000 years before the Holy City comes down
    upon or over the New Earth. Rev.3:12.

    The Lamb will lead the Martyrs into fountains
    of living waters in the Temple (Rev.7:17) until the Temple no longer exists. The voice out of the Temple, as of Rev.16:17, proclaims "It is Done" on the Lastday.

    One thousand years later the voice coming out of heaven, not from the Temple, but from the New
    Jerusalem over the earth, proclaims: "All things are Done". Rev.21:3-6. For there was no longer a temple in the New Jerusalem. Rev.21:22.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  2. OldRegular

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    ???????????????????????????????? :D
     
  3. Grasshopper

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    I always start at the beginning for context:

    Rev 1:1 A Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to Him to declare to His servants things which must shortly come to pass. And He signified it by sending His angel to His servant John,
     
  4. Mel Miller

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    Grasshopper,

    Here we start at the End for the context.
    Then we look back at what "has come"
    Rev.16:17 gives us the voice from the
    Temple in heaven: "It is Done". Rev.16:17.

    Interpreted: "The Last Day has begun"
    The Lamb immediately opens Seal Six to
    begin the events of the Day of Wrath"!
    Number One: "The Day of Wrath has come".
    Rev.6:17.

    The armies to be destroyed as of the
    7th Trumpet and 7th Plague have already
    been gathered to Armageddon.

    Plague 7, emptied in the air, and Seal
    Six START the Last Day in Revelation.
    For the text of Rev.16:12-17 immediately
    precedes that of Rev.6:12-17.

    Mel Miller
     
  5. Mel Miller

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    OldRegular,

    On Jan.12, your response to my post on the
    Order of Pre-Endtime, Endtime and Lastday
    Events, was as follows:
    ______________________________________________
    "Does your First Resurrection occur before the Great Tribulation or after Great Tribulation"?
    ______________________________________________

    Finally, you have stated, as of yesterday, that
    you have nothing more to say on this subject
    since you totally disagree with my answer to
    your question on Christ's reign over both earth
    and in heaven during the 1000 years the Martyrs
    "serve God and reign with Christ"!
    _______________________________________________

    The Scriptures, of course, speak for themselves.

    But NOW, as the first responder to my post on
    the much more limited Order of Events beginning with the opening of Seal Six on the LASTDAY, your total respsonse was:
    ???????????????????????????????????????????
    _______________________________________________

    Does that mean you have no idea of what occurs
    after the first reference in Revelation to
    what "HAS COME" when God's voice "comes out of
    the temple, from the throne, stating:

    "IT IS DONE"!! ?????????????

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  6. Mel Miller

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    Grasshopper,

    I wish to reiterate the start of events.

    You want to start with Rev.1:1 for the
    context of the Lastday's order of events.

    We should start at the "End" and work
    backward from the context which brings us
    the voice from the Temple in heaven:
    "It is Done". Rev.16:17.

    We find the first thing that "Has Come
    on the Day of Wrath". Rev.6:17.

    The Last Day has begun as the armies are gathered to Armageddon, the 7th Plague
    empties in the air and the Lamb immediately opens Seal Six to begin the Day of Wrath"!

    Number One: "The Day of Wrath HAS COME".
    Rev.6:12-17 immediately follows Rev.16:12-17.

    The armies to be destroyed as of the 7th Trumpet
    and 7th Plague have already been gathered to
    Armageddon. But the 7th Trumpet has not yet
    trumpeted that the "appointed time for His wrath
    Has Come". The Tribunal of Seal 7 occurs first.

    Plague 7 empties in the air and suspends there
    for the Tribunal of Seal 7 and then for the 7th
    (Last) Trumpet to announce that His Wrath
    "has come". Rev.11:18.

    While the 7th Plague reveals God's patience has
    been exhausted, it remains suspended until the
    Tribunal of Seal 7 renders its Verdict.

    The warnings of Seal Six continue until the blast of the 7th Trumpet proclaims "God's wrath has come" and also the time for resurrection of the dead in Christ and rewards to the Saints. Rev.11:18.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  7. Brother Bob

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    This is the wrath of God being pour out on the earth. The saints have already been redeemed from the earth as I see it, not just for a 1000 years but for eternity.
    Revelation, chapter 16

    12: And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.
    13: And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
    14: For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.
    15: Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.
    16: And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.


    Matt.03 (hath warned you to "flee from" the wrath to come?)

    1: In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea,
    2: And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.
    3: For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
    4: And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey.
    5: Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,
    6: And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
    7: But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
     
  8. Brother Bob

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    Med Miller;

    There has already been 5 vials filled with the wrath of God poured out at the point you speak of and if the NT begins with "who hath warned ye to flee the wrath of God which is to come". To flee is to escape from. How can this statement be true?

    there can be no Resurrection and Rapture of ALL the Saints until the Beast's armies gather to
    Armageddon and the 7th Trumpet sounds that



    could you explain please?
     
  9. Mel Miller

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    Brother Bob,

    The 7th Trumpet states it is the appointed time
    to "judge the dead (in Christ), to reward the
    prophets and saints and all who fear God, both
    small and great, and to destroy the destroyers of earth" because God's wrath has come. 11:18.

    Nothing you have sent in response gives any
    indication of a Pre-Trib "judgment and rewards"
    to the dead in Christ; including prophets and saints. Jesus will "bring His rewards with
    Him when He comes in glory with the angels".
    Matt.16:27; Rev.22:12.

    I submit my conclusion about your following statement that it is without any Scripture to dispute the action of the Last Trump in Revelation that sounds after "time shall be no
    longer" subject to a countdown. All 1260
    endtime days will have been completed "in the
    (3 1/2) days" before Trump 7 actually sounds.

    Your statement:
    "This is the wrath of God being pour out on the earth. The saints have already been redeemed from the earth as I see it, not just for a 1000 years but for eternity. Revelation, chapter 16.

    I am unimpressed by statements made without any
    Scripture to back them up. Sixty to seventy years ago I believed like you do ... likewise without any Scripture to support a Pre-Trub
    "gathering of the elect from earth to heaven" as in Mark 13:27 which occurs "in the days after the tribulation".

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  10. Brother Bob

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    Mel Miller;

    I really am not trying to impress you, just stating what John the Baptist said about fleeing the Wrath of God. I don't believe the time of tribulations and the wrath of God are the same thing as apparently you do.

    I think you are fishing in Revelations as a lot of us for no one really understands it all except God. You also believe the 1000 year reign will be in Heaven and I don't believe that either. In the 1000 year reign it speaks that the souls of them that were beheaded lived and reign with Christ. It was talking about a part of a whole in other words the Souls. If it were talking of the soul and body it would of said I saw the souls that were beheaded.
    Your assessment of the Scriptures in Revelations means that God will pour his wrath out on His own children and I just don't believe that.

    One scripture on 1000 years and I have heard more descriptions about it than anything else in the Bible, and it speaks of it all as being in the past tense (already happened).
     
  11. Mel Miller

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    Brother Bob,

    I agree with you that the time of tribulation is
    NOT the same thing as God's wrath.

    You are assuming that the Plagues contain God's
    wrath. Men are given the option to "repent"
    during six Trumpets and five Plagues. God does
    not dispense His wrath (which automatically
    brings death) until the 7th Trumpet sounds.

    The Plagues "complete God's anger (thumos)"; not
    His wrath (orgay). The New Jerusalem Bible is
    the only Bible that correctly translates the
    Greek by stating: "The Plagues exhaust God's
    anger". How could the Plagues "complete God's
    WRATH" with the Armies of the 6th Plague able
    to invade Israel. They will be destroyed only
    when Christ comes on the Day of Wrath and first "gathers the elect from earth to heaven after the great tribulation". Mark 13:24-27.

    God's wrath does not kill the wicked until
    the 7th Trumpet sounds. The Tribunal of Seal 7
    condemns them to Hell moments before the 7th
    Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has come"!

    So my "assessment of the Scriptures means that
    God will pour His wrath" only on the wicked
    because no Believer has been appointed to His
    wrath. AND I KNOW YOU BELIEVE THAT IS TRUE!!

    Keep up your search Bob. You are sincere!

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  12. Brother Bob

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    Mel Miller;

    There are several things that just don't seem right to me. First is the 6th vial of the wrath of God:


    Revelation, chapter 16

    "1": And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

    "12": And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

    "13": And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet.

    "14": For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.

    "15": Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

    "16": And he gathered them together into a place called in the Hebrew tongue Armageddon.

    So, I go back to what I previously quoted: How can this be true when there has already been 5 vials of the wrath of God poured out on the earth and not the plagues either.

    The only conclusion we can make is that the
    Coronation of Christ, the First Resurrection of Rev.20:4-5 and His "gathering of of all the
    Elect from earth to heaven" occur on the Day
    He comes to destroy the wicked at Armageddon.


    I spend a lot of time in Revelations and only preach what I feel God has given me and what I don't understand I leave alone. I think you are very sincere and certainly have studied a lot so I hope to learn from you. I love the book of Revelations.

    Another thing that bothers me is this:

    KJMatt.16

    "26": For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

    "27": For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works .


    [​IMG]

    [ March 30, 2006, 02:33 PM: Message edited by: Brother Bob ]
     
  13. Mel Miller

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    Brother Bob,

    This is long; but you are one to appreciate it!

    I sensed that you have studied carefully. Would you agree that God's wrath has not been executed
    as long as His "judgments are meant to bring men
    to repentance"? Rom.2:4.

    In the 6th Trumpet and 4th and 5th Plagues, the
    wicked refuse to repent and are blaspheming God.
    When God's anger + wrath strike the entire earth,
    the wicked are still "blaspheming". Rev.16:21.

    This anger + wrath occurs after the 7th Plague
    empties in the air; not during the Plagues; but
    after the Plagues!! Rom.9:22 reveals that God's
    longsuffering (makrothumos) continues until the
    the Day of Wrath "has come" as of Rev.6:17.

    Bob, the Plagues are part of the "long-thumos,
    the long-anger", the patience of God. They
    "complete His anger" (Exhaust His anger in The
    New Jerusalem Bible). Rev.15:1. The Latin
    Vulgate substituted "longsuffering" for the Greek "long-anger", makro-thumos.

    When does God's "anger (thumos) mix with full
    strength in the Cup of wrath (orgay)? Not in
    the 6 Plagues while men are allowed to repent
    but instead gather unimpeded to Armageddon. God gathers them PRIOR to His wrath (allowing them to kill a third of mankind and to cross the Euphrates just before Christ "comes as a thief"
    (Rev.16:15) to destroy them all.

    The 7th Trumpet sounds when God's wrath "has
    come". Rev.11:18. Seal 6 is the first thing (text-wise) that "has come" on the Day of Wrath. Rev.6:17. The wrath of Trump 7 is the 6th thing that "has come" (haylthen; time-wise and text-wise) on the same Day of Wrath.

    The Angel of Fire renders the Verdict for God's Wrath (the Angel "has come" before God, the 5th
    of ten things) by casting coals off the Altar to earth. Rev.8:3-5.

    The Verdict of the 7th Seal, IMO, occurs on the
    same solar Day of Wrath as that of Seal 6; but
    by opening the Scroll for the first time and noting that the seven Angels are "prepared to sound" PRIOR to the Verdict of Rev.8:5, it is possible that John's method is to display the evidence from just six Trumpets for about a half hour as the basis for the Verdict symbolized by coals cast to earth. Rev.8:2,5.

    If my observation is correct, the 7th Trumpet Angel (the one that does not sound right after the 6th Trumpet holocaust to kill 2 billion; but will sound as soon as the Verdict is rendered) sounds that "God's wrath has come" immediately after the 7th Seal. We jump from 8:5 to 11:15
    because Seal 7 and Trump 7 both occur in the
    OPEN Temple after the Last Plague empties. 15:8.

    John's method is to produce "evidence" after
    "time is no longer and God's mystery was
    finished". Rev.10:6-7. The Two Prophets finish
    their 1260-day task 3 1/2 days prior to the 7th
    Trumpet. But Rev.8:6 to Rev.11:11, after which they rise up to witness in the Court Scene of Seal 7 and Dan.7:22, describe events as in a
    "flashback" or continued build-up to the Lastday.

    The same is true regarding the 7 Last Plagues.
    The Martyrs sing that the Plagues had already
    "completed God's anger" before John describes
    them in detail as the basis for their indictment in song. Then they proclaim it is time for "all
    the nations to come to worship God". Rev.15:1-4.

    There are several "keys" to this conclusion.
    Context-wise, these keys stand out. One: John
    switches FROM the aorist tense, indicative
    mood in 15:1-4 TO the subjuctive mood in vs.8
    because the Plagues were fulfilled when the
    7 angels exited the temple to empty their Vials
    PRIOR to the Great and Wonderful Sign of 15:1.

    Two: "No one can enter the open Temple (as
    seen in Rev.7:9 to Rev.8:5 and Rev.11:15-19)
    until the last Plague empties in the air". 15:8.

    Three: The Storm Theophany after the 7th Seal
    repeats itself after the 7th Trumpet and 7th
    Plague to show the rapid movement from Seal 7
    to Trump 7 to the Cup of Wrath after Plague 7
    implodes from the air! 8:5; 11:19; 16:18.

    The decisive Key, however, is that "no one can
    enter the Temple until the last Plague empties"!

    In June of 1993 when I saw this combination of switching from the indicative to the subjunctive mood AND that the 7th Plague must "empty" before the Martyrs "sing" and before they enter the Temple, my focus in the study of Revelation changed drastically. I saw John returning over and over to events of the Lastday as in "after these things" in 15:5 and again in 7:9 for the 3-Act Temple Drama that leads to filling the Cup of Wrath with God's "long-suffering" anger.

    Early Church Fathers substituted "wrath" for "anger" since the influence of Plato disallowed any reference to God as One to be subject to the "purterbations of human anger".

    That's why translators of the KJV never once translated thumos as "anger". Verify this even in verses where "thumos and orgay" occur ... as
    in Col.3:8 and Eph.4:31. The most devastating error of translating these two words occurs in Rev.14:10! NASB has God's wrath mixing in a Cup
    of Anger instead of Anger in the Cup of Wrath!

    And all Bibles but the New Jerusalem Bible have the Plagues "completing God's anger" before
    that Anger fills the Cup of Wrath and Christ
    comes simultaneously to "tread the winepress
    in both anger and wrath"; the winepress that
    was first filled with overripe fruit of God's
    great anger. Rev.14:19-20 anticipates 19:15!

    But, since both the reaping and the treading occur on the same solar day, I agree to calling this overripe fruit "the grapes of wrath"!

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  14. Brother Bob

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    Mel Miller;

    I printed it out and will study what you have written but I have one question I need to know before I start. Are you saying that because of translation the following Scripture should of said vials of anger instead of vials of wrath?

    Revelation, chapter 16

    1: And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
     
  15. Mel Miller

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    Brother Bob,

    One paragraph I wrote needs a correction for an
    error that contradicts the facts. I wrote:

    "And all Bibles but the New Jerusalem Bible have the Plagues "completing God's anger".

    I should have written that all Bibles have the
    Plagues "completing God's wrath" before His
    Anger fills the Cup of Wrath and Christ comes
    simultaneously to "tread the winepress in both anger and wrath"; the winepress that was first filled with overripe fruit of God's great anger. Rev.14:19-20 anticipates" the anger and wrath of Rev.19:15!

    The Greek text uses "thumos" of the plagues in Rev.15:1 and 16:1 and should be translated as "anger" instead of "wrath".

    It stands to reason, from Rev.15:8, that since
    "no one enters the Temple until the last Plague
    empties", the 7th Trump therefore sounds after the 7th Plague empties because the Temple was OPEN". Rev.11:19.

    It also stands to reason, since God's wrath
    has NOT come until the 7th Trumpet, the Last
    Plague must empty PRIOR to God's wrath that
    is proclaimed in the 7th Trumpet!

    It further makes sense that God's wrath is
    not completed in the Plagues since Christ must come from heaven "as a thief" before He "treads the winepress in anger and wrath". Rev.19:15.

    The reaping of these armies into the winepress
    occurs at the hour of God's "great anger" since
    the word is "mega thumos" in Rev.14:19. The
    Reaping of tares must occur before the righteous can be reaped. Matt.13:30. So the armies are literally gathered to Armageddon before the Elect are "gathered from earth to heaven after the great tribulation". Mark 13:24-27.

    Finally, the combination of anger + wrath is not
    found until after the Last Plague empties in the
    air. See Rev.16:19 and Rev.19:15.

    Both of these texts are fulfilled after Christ appears "as a thief". This is corroborated by Jesus in Luke 21:34-35 where the Day of total Destruction comes "suddenly as a snare on all the inhabitants on all the face of all the earth" after they "see the Son of Man appear and men's hearts fail from fear". Luke 21:25-27.

    His coming "as a thief" is "sudden" and as a
    snare" in I Thess.5:3 and in Rev.19:15. Men will
    be saying "peace and safety" because the Beast
    will have killed the two Prophets and his armies
    will have killed two billion people and by the
    (claimed) miraculous power of the False Prophet
    will make the Euphrates River dry so the armies
    may cross into Israel to destroy God's people!!

    For these reasons, at least in the eyes of the
    Beast, False Prophet and these wicked soldiers,
    the Wrath of God has not yet fallen upon them!

    Wrath brings total Destruction to the wicked on
    the Day Christ is "revealed from heaven" to
    destroy armies stetched out over 180 miles. Luke 17:29-30; 2 Thess.1:7-10; Rev.14:20.

    At the same time, anger + wrath pours out of
    the Cup of Wrath to complete the destruction of the mountains and cities of earth and to move the Islands out of place that began a few hours
    earlier (at noon; Amos 8:9) on the same Last Day in which God's wrath "has come". Rev.6:14; Rev. 16:20. So, yes, translating THUMOS properly
    requires the exhaustion of God's patient anger
    before it fills the Cup of Wrath.

    Mel www.lastday.net
     
  16. Brother Bob

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    Mel Miller; [​IMG]

    It will take me a while to try and absorb this but bear with me and I will give you an honest answer as best I can figure it out. Thanks

    Brother Bob
     
  17. Mel Miller

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    Friends,

    I believe that God's patience with the wicked
    ends when the "voice comes out of the Temple,
    from the Throne, saying: 'It is Done'". 16:17.

    That means the Plagues continue to allow
    men to gather to Armageddon before His
    anger turns to wrath.

    God is "longsuffering" until the Day of Wrath, until the "sun turns dark, the moon to blood and a great earthquake causes 7 classes of men to cry out for the rocks to hide them from that wrath and from the wrath of the Lamb". 6:17.

    I believe these 7 classes will be hiding in the
    mountains from fear at the invasion of millions
    of soldiers into Israel. It is only with the
    great earthquake on the Lastday that they are
    filled with fear that seeks escape from God's wrath. This agrees with Luke 21:34-36 where
    those who are unsaved have their final chance
    to believe in Christ or perish when He appears.

    Mel www.lastday.net
     
  18. Mel Miller

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    Friends,

    Because God's patience continues until six
    trumpets and six plagues have proved that
    the wicked refuse to repent, it is only
    when the Last Plague empties in the air
    that His anger moves quickly to the point
    of no return and it "fills the cup of wrath".

    There is no mention of "anger + wrath" until
    the last plague empties.
    Mel www.lastday.net
     
  19. Mel Miller

    Mel Miller
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    Friends,

    One week has passed since I made the observation
    that "no mention of `anger + wrath' occurs until
    the last plague empties" in the air.

    For this reason alone, it is a false statement
    (in all Bibles except The New Jerusalem Bible)
    that "the plagues complete God's wrath"!! Rev.15:1.

    The Plagues "exhaust God's anger" (thumos);
    then that anger "mixes full strength in the
    Cup of God's wrath" (orgay). Rev.14:10; Rev.16:18-21.

    The 7th Plague remains suspended in the air
    and the warnings of the 6th Seal continue until the 7th Trumpet sounds that "God's wrath has
    come". Then the 7th Plague's contents implode!

    The Day of Wrath begins with Seal 6.
    The Trial of the wicked occurs in Seal 7.
    The Time appointed to destroy the "destroyers of
    earth occurs as of the 7th Trumpet". Rev.11:18.

    Mel Miller www.lastday.net
     
  20. Me4Him

    Me4Him
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    I agree.

    Before you can understand revelations, you first have to understand what the "Symbols" represent.

    The trib is a time of both Chastisement for Israel rejection of Jesus and "wrath" on unbelievers.

    The SUN is the symbol for Jesus, Moon for any "Assemble of God's people", Jew/Gentile (church)

    Just as the natural moon reflects it's light from the sun, so does the church from the Son.

    The "moon" dripping blood, is God using the AC as a "ROD" to chastise Israel, alowing him to kill them if they have the testimony of Christ.

    The church died a "Spiritual death" when our "old man" is crucified, however Israel will die a "literal death" to be saved as chastisement.

    Since the church is the "Body of Christ" and Jesus has already died as the "PASSOVER LAMB" to protect the "Firstborn", the church will literally "PASSOVER" the trib (Day of atonement)by the pre trib rapture.

    Jesus is the Scapegoat for Israel, and the goat sacrificed is their "body of sin", just as our "old goat" is our body of sin, the difference being one spiritual, one literal.

    Allowing the AC to prevail over/kill believers is "chastisement", not wrath, these are easy to get mixed up.


    Ps 89:20 I have found David my servant; with my holy oil have I anointed him:

    Ps 89:30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
    31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments;
    32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes. (in their flesh)

    Isa 10:5 O Assyrian,(AC) the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation.

    Da 7:21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;

    Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power (staff) was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

    Re 13:15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

    Re 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God,
     

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