Order of salvation...

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Aug 11, 2009.

  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)


    When is one granded repentance?
     
  2. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    We humans tend to think in terms of "if/then". That's simpyl due to the fact that we're physical beings, limited to a timeline existence. Spiritual matters are not bound by the rules of "if/then", any more than they are bound by physical limitations.

    So what does that have to do with repentence? Repentence is not an action or reaction. Repentence is an attitude. It's a condition of the heart. It's also not a single instance. It is perpetual. The verse is not talking about someone "receiving" repentence, it's talking about a person giving instruction in a manner that leads a person towards (and not away from) a relationship with God, which includes (but is not limited to) a condition of repentance.
     
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    From who's perspective?
    God's...man's?

    I've said this before, the internal mechanics of salvation are difficult at best to understand. Maybe they are supposed to be part of the mystery of God.
     
  4. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    if this be the case..(Which I would say it another way)...but if this be the case just as you said. When does..... "God grant them repentance"?

    Before or after they know the truth?
     
  5. Johnv

    Johnv
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2001
    Messages:
    21,321
    Likes Received:
    0
    The answer is "yes". It's not a before/after condition in this verse. God is not limited to before/after or if/then. We as humans cannot fully understand that, because we're physically limited to if/then and before/after.

    Again, the verse isn't addressing the one being instructed, it's addressing the one doing the instructing. The verse wasn't intended to answer the question of "when" a person receives salvation.
     
  6. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    I agree.............
     
  7. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Going by the verse, when would God want us to BELIEVE he granted it?

    I'm not getting into the God and Time thing. I have been over that showing the real meaning from scripture so many times its not funny. This is always a cop out for Freewillers.

    So when did God want us to believe he Grants it?

    I'll just throw one thing out there...

    When Christ is said to return someday....can we say based on your view of God and time....he has already returned?
     
  8. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Incorrect. I thought it was jibberish. But the fact remains this verse fails to prove your point as you have taken it out of context.
     
  9. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Who is the text written to and about?
     
  10. OldRegular

    OldRegular
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Messages:
    22,678
    Likes Received:
    53
    Like faith repentance is also an essential aspect of conversion. However, the repentance associated with conversion must be proceeded by faith, that is, a person cannot truly repent of his sins against God until he believes that God is and that he has sinned against God.
     
  11. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    What point? I have asked one thing. When was it granted? Any ideas?
     
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    When was it granted? Not who.

    We can address who later. When was it granted?

    understand?
     
  13. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    I think we have our 1st answer. No twisting the words....just addressing the passage.

    Thanks OR
     
  14. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...apparently you don't with statement like Before or after they know the truth?

    If you don't know the basics of who and what, I would suggest studying up on them and coming back to play at a later date
     
  15. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    Translation: I only accept answers I agree with :rolleyes:
     
  16. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    maybe you would like to give a answer.

    When was it granted?

    Allow me to repost..
    And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that God will grant them repentance leading them to a knowledge of the truth…(2 Tim 2:24-25)

    OR has given the right answer.

    Now lets address what you brought up.

    WHO was this talking about?

    Who are "THEY" in verse 26?
    :)
     
  17. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you care you can give a answer as well. :) Who knows, maybe I will agree. :laugh:
     
  18. webdog

    webdog
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2005
    Messages:
    24,691
    Likes Received:
    0
    The same "they" in verses 17 and 18
     
  19. TCGreek

    TCGreek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2006
    Messages:
    7,373
    Likes Received:
    0
    These days my order of salvation is thus: once a person is brought to repentance and faith in Christ. That's it!
     
  20. Benefactor

    Benefactor
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2009
    Messages:
    264
    Likes Received:
    0
    Which means that you see regeneration prior to repentance and faith in Christ?
     

Share This Page

Loading...