Ordering of Scripture

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by Deacon, Sep 23, 2008.

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Ordering of Scripture

  1. Work of Man

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  2. Work of God

    5 vote(s)
    26.3%
  3. Both

    9 vote(s)
    47.4%
  4. Other

    0 vote(s)
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  1. Deacon

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    Considering the arrangement of the books of the Bible:

    Is the ordering a work of man or a work of God?

    Is the order inspired?

    Rob
     
  2. annsni

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    Does it matter?
     
  3. Deacon

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    Good question!

    Does it matter?

    Rob
     
  4. franklinmonroe

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  5. Thinkingstuff

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    Despite what people say its a decent question. The books of the bible as we have them are arranged in the order that the LXX has them leaving out the DC. In fact the titles we have for the books in the OT are english names translated from the Greek and not Hebrew. The differences are 1and2 samuel which in the LXX is 1and 2 kings then 3rd and 4th kings is 1and 2nd kings in our bible. The Torah was the first writen 5 books of the bible but keep in mind our bible is not ordered like the Jewish bible. the 27 books of the NT are ordered as they have always been once they were canonized. Which was accomplished by a Church synod.
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

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    my bold
    Have you checked out the Russian Synodical Version? James through Jude are placed between Acts and Romans. The Paulines are also in the same order but the RST goes from Philemon to Hebrews to Revelation.
     
  7. franklinmonroe

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    Not neccessarily. For example, Tyndale's New Testament (1535) order of books has I & II Peter following Philemon, and consequently placed Hebrews & James after I, II & III John (thus directly before Jude & Revelation.) This seems to be Luther's influence.

    Very recently, the IBS published The Books of The Bible (a TNIV translation) with the books in the following order --
    Luke-Acts, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, 1 & 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Romans, Colossians, Ephesians, Philemon, Philippians,
    1 Timothy, Titus, 2 Timothy, Matthew, Hebrews, James, Mark, 1 & 2 Peter, Jude, John's Gospel, 1, 2, & 3 John, Revelation​
     
    #7 franklinmonroe, Sep 24, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 24, 2008
  8. Alcott

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    Ordering of Scripture

    Never did it. Every one that I have had I either bought cash-on-the-barrel at the bookstore, or it was given to me.
     
  9. Salamander

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    Changing the order in which they are most known to be would mess up the neat little song we've used to help memorize all the books.:sleeping_2:
     
  10. annsni

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    That's how my girls learned the books of the Bible. I learned them in Christian school in 4th grade - no need for songs there! ROTFL!

    But even if the books were in alphabetical order, it wouldn't change one thing about the Word. :) Well, maybe make it easier for those who haven't memorized the order of the books to find a passage....
     
  11. Salamander

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    Well, it might change the middle of the Bible if Psalms were moved from its place:

    Psalm 118:8 It is better to trust in the Lord than to put confidence in man.

    I wonder why "the Lord" is also the middle two words? What about other versions?

    If anything, the count of words places "the Lord" right in the middle of the KJB and other versions fail to make this distinction:godisgood:

    :D



    :D



    :D
     
    #11 Salamander, Sep 25, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2008
  12. Ed Edwards

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    The short trip from FUNDAMENTALISM to NEW AGEism:

    The fundamentals of traditional fundamentalism:

    1. the inspiration and infallibility of scripture
    2. the deity of Christ (including His virgin birth)
    3. the substitutionary atonement of Christ's death
    4. the literal resurrection of Christ from the dead
    5. the literal return of Christ in the Second Advent

    Note the first one is about the Written Word of God,
    the Holy Bible (AKA: Holy Scripture).
    Note that #2 to #5 (the last four) are about
    the Living Word of God, Messiah Jesus.
    Notice that a person (even if He is a spiritual person)
    is NOT the same as a Book (even if it is the
    best book in the world).

    To equate the Written Word of God and the Living
    Word of God is a step away from the Fundamentals
    of Christianity. To equate the Written Word of God
    and the Living Word of God is a step toward
    a NEW AGE belief.

    Another step toward the NEW AGE belief concerning
    the Holy Scripture is to use the Divine Bible
    (third person of the Holy Trinity) as a divination device
    and a fortune telling tool: i.e. using
    some use of 'the center' of the Bible magic on some
    unspecified King James Version ONLY.

    BTW, the NEW AGE is just the OLD IMORALITY/Paganism

    The use of 'the center' of the Bible magic is a direct violation of the ETERNAL
    LAW OF GOD as shown in Deuternomoty 18:10-12
    (note that for clarity I use, as my signature suggests, more than one translation)

    Sources
    Deuter 18:10-12 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition)
    Deuter 18:10-12 (KJV1611 Edition):
    Deuter 18:10-12 (HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003/ )

    Geneva 10A. or that vseth witchcraft,
    KJV1611 10A. or that vseth diuination,
    HCSB 10A. practice divination,

    Geneva 10B. or a regarder of times,
    KJV1611 10B. or an obseruer of times,
    HCSB 10B. tell fortunes,

    Geneva 10C. or a marker of the flying of foules,
    KJV1611 10C. or an inchanter,
    HCSB 10C. interpret omens,

    Geneva 10D. or a sorcerer,
    KJV1611 10D. or a witch,
    HCSB 10D. practice sorcery,

    Geneva 11A. Or a charmer,
    KJV1611 11A. Or a charmer,
    HCSB 11A. cast spells,

    Geneva 11B. or that counselleth with spirits,
    KJV1611 11B. or a consulter with familiar spirits,
    HCSB 11B. or (consult) a familiar spirit,

    Geneva 11C. or a soothsaier,
    KJV1611 11C. or a wyzard,
    HCSB 11C. consult a medium

    Geneva 11D. or that asketh counsel at ye dead.
    KJV1611 11D. or a Necromancer.
    HCSB 11D. or inquire of the dead.
    ---------------------------

    What is Deut 18:10-12 speaking of? What offence do these things make before God? IMHO they are attempts to deal with the Forces of the Universe by GOING AROUND God trying to IGNORE God.
    ---------------------------

    in Dictionary.com this is the definition of SORCERY:
    the art, practices, or spells of a person who is supposed to exercise supernatural powers through the aid of evil spirits; black magic; witchery (this term dates from 1259-1300).

    in Dictionary.com this is the definition of DIVINATION:
    the practice of attempting to foretell future events or discover hidden knowledge by occult or supernatural means. (this term dates from 1350-1400)
     
  13. Ed Edwards

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    Psa 118:8-9 (Geneva Bible, 1599 Edition):
    It is better to trust in the Lord, then to haue confidence in man.
    9 It is better to trust in the Lord, then to haue confidence in princes.

    How in the world does it make it better than what Psalm 118:8-9 says to be in the 'center of the Bible'? I believed Psalm 118:8-9 before I heard the rumor that verse 8 was in the middle of the Bible.

    Snopes (Urban Legends) at:

    http://www.snopes.com/religion/center.asp

    Says: using this KJV:
    http://www.biblegateway.com/versions/index.php?action=getVersionInfo&vid=9#books&version=9;

    that the Middle Chapter is Psalm 117
    that the Middle verse of Psalm 117 says 'the Lord' THREE TIMES.
    Tee Hee, not only does the Middle Chapter REALLY being Psalm 117 make it better than being 118; it PROVES the Holy Trinity by mentioning 'the Lord' three times!!! :godisgood:
     
  14. Salamander

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    All you've done is make false allegations according to your bias against "KJVO".

    The facts remain, it is better to trust in the Lord than any man made device to discredit the word of God. The Bible refers to this as "witty inventions"

    The suggestion that believing the KJB is the word of God to be a new age theology is STUPENDOUS!:laugh: But you're welcome to make any allegations you'd like. Just remember, others are watching.
     
  15. Salamander

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    Be honest and count words. But then again, why on earth would I expect........
     
  16. Marcia

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    I think Ed was making a point about you making a point regarding the word "the Lord" being in the center of that verse.
    It means nothing because in other languages, it is probably not the center. I don't know about the Hebrew, but it may not be the center there, either.

    Having the word "the Lord" in the center might be visually nice and poetic but it does not have instrinsic meaning. Otherwise, any language that does not puts "the Lord" in the center would be somehow less in value.

    Luther's German version of Ps. 118:8
    Es ist gut, auf den HERRN zu vertrauen, und nicht sich verlassen auf Menschen.

    "Lord" is not in the center.

    Nor is it in the center in the Creole:
    Pito yon moun chache pwoteksyon anba zèl Seyè a pase pou l' mete konfyans li nan moun.

    Nor is it center in French or Portuguese:
    Mieux vaut se réfugier auprès de l'Eternel
    que de compter sur les humains

    É melhor confiar no Senhor do que confiar nos homens
     
  17. franklinmonroe

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    Wow! I don't usually quote a whole post but this one is so excellent from beginning to end it bore repeating in its entirety. Thanks, Marcia. A great point well made!
     
    #17 franklinmonroe, Sep 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  18. Gold Dragon

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    I picked both. I don't believe there is only 1 correct order of the books. But the orders that we do have and have had in the past are both the work of God and man.

    Similarly the bible is a work of God and man. God using man to create his word to all people.
     
  19. franklinmonroe

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    According to The Kregel Pictorial Guide to Bible Facts and Figures by Tim Dowley the middle verse of Bible is Psalm 118:5 (apparently based upon 31,173 verses). You may not want to accept this as fact because I have also found multiple sources that variously give the verse count as 31,101 or 31,102 or 31,103 and 31,170 or 31,175. According to some sources (which may be just replicating info from others) claim that the middle verse is Psalm 103:1-2 (two verses because of an even total in verse count) which makes the middle words "bless his holy name". Remember, this is all based upon verse count.
    Word estimates I saw vary from 773,692 up to 810,697 (each supposedly based upon KJV texts).

    Sal has implied he did his own count since he stated this fact without giving credit or referrence elsewhere. So, some of my questions to Sal are: 1) what was your final verse total? 2) did you include the Apocrypha verses (as they appear in the AV1611)? 3) did you include the superscriptions of the Psalms as separate verses (as the Jews do)? 4) what was your final word count? 5) which edition did you use? 6) did you include the words of the Pauline subscriptions (as found in many KJVs)?

    Perhaps it is worth mentioning that Psalms would NOT be near the middle of the Hebrew arrangment of Holy Scripture. The now common order of the 66 books of the Protestant canon is based upon primarily the 'logical' Greek LXX arrangement (and through the Latin Bibles).
     
    #19 franklinmonroe, Sep 26, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 26, 2008
  20. Marcia

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    Thanks so much for saying this! It was interesting to look at this in other languages.
     
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