Featured Ordination service

Winman · May 27, 2014

DHK said: ↑

You are not sticking with the Scriptures. The word "Son" is simply a title.
In John 1:1 he is called the "Word". That is more accurate. God the Father, God the Word, and God the Holy Spirit, the triune Godhead were from all eternity. They never had a beginning and will never have an end. God the Word knew from time immemorial that he would come and die for our sins. It was not a last minuted decision when he saw that mankind was in trouble.
God the Word knew from time immemorial knows what exact time he will come a second time. That time is known to God the Word, and always has been. If it isn't known to him that God the Word is not God, and God is not God. You worship a false god just like the pagans. God is omniscient. It is one of the major attributes of God. God the Word cannot be separated from God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. We do not worship three separate gods.
Here O Israel, there is one God.
He is the same: yesterday, today and forever.

To say that He does not know is to say that God is not God. It is to destroy God and make him a god, like the heathen gods.

Put things in context. He came to earth as an infant. As an infant he deliberately laid aside (not emptied) some of his divine attributes, and yet still was God.
As he grew, he grew in stature and in favor with God and men (Luke 2:52).
Sometimes he exercised his divine power and knowledge and sometimes he did not. Those things are self-evident in all of his works and miracles.
Even the skeptic Nathaniel saw that and became a disciple.
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I believe Jesus performed his miracles in the same way the prophets did, through faith in God and the power of the Holy Spirit. The prophets were men, but they were able to perform miracles. Jesus's disciples were men, but they were able to perform miracles, they could heal the sick and cast out devils.

I believe Jesus lived like a saved man on earth, he did not operate out of his divinity, but his humanity. Even Peter was able to walk on water as long as he believed and did not doubt.

Winman · May 27, 2014

InTheLight said: ↑

I think it was about an ordination service that could have been so much better if only the candidate had been a Calvinist. I think...
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Well, not only that, but Evan said things like this as well;

Evan said:

nor do I find the view that he was not sure if Christ could sin while on the earth accurate as it was IMPOSSIBLE for Christ to sin.
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The truth is, theologians have debated this issue for centuries. I pointed that out to Evan, some of his beloved Reformed theologians like R.C. Sproul and Charles Hodge believed Jesus could sin.

So, this really wasn't a rabbit trail, it actually addressed the OP, it's just the OP went all over the map.

Salty · May 27, 2014

Here is the unedited OP from POSt # 1 -

evangelist6589 said: ↑

I attended one today and was in the audience. The man being ordained got his MA in Biblical Studies and was very humble, has a heart for youth, and people. Also a man filled with grace. The pastors asked questions and the statement of doctrine was an application of systematic theology. I recognized much of what was presented however I do not understand how someone could not know what Open Theism was nor know if it's a heresy, nor do I find the view that he was not sure if Christ could sin while on the earth accurate as it was IMPOSSIBLE for Christ to sin. Also I did not agree with his loose interpretation of the Hebrew term "yom" and his view that it could mean extended periods of time.

He emphasized a 2 Pt Calvinism but in reality it was semi- pelagainism as no one can claim to hold to Total Depravity yet reject the doctrine of Irrestible Grace or the Effectual Call of the Spirit planing faith and repentance in the elect. No God does not make people evil as Hyper Calvinism teaches but God knows his elect and chose them before the foundation of the world and died for the elect on the Cross.

He also did not know whom TD jakes is and his heresy of modalism on the view of God (God takes on different modes) but is not a triune God. Nor the Emerging Church and Brian Mclarrens lies and deceptions.

The man admitted areas he needs to grow and had no pride which was good. However being a Biblical studies graduate does not make one at expert in theology it just makes one an expert in exegesis and the Original languages which is a field I am not as savvy in.

Besides some few short falls he seemed to have a general grasp in theology and having never done this I have no idea what it would be like.
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quantumfaith · May 27, 2014

DHK said: ↑

He was speaking as a man who had limited himself and his infinite knowledge at that specific time. At other times he used his omniscience.
The same is true with his omnipotence. He refrained from using his almighty power when going to the cross. He could have called 12 legions of angels but he didn't.
Yet, throughout his ministry, he calmed the raging sea, walked on water, changed water into wine, and raised Lazarus from the dead. This was a great display of his omnipotence. He didn't use this power all the time, only some of the time.
He didn't use his omniscience all of the time only some of the time.
Why was he able to answer all the questions of the Rabbis in the Temple at the age of 12? His parents had not taught him all of that knowledge. He relied on his Divine knowledge, his omniscience.[/QUOTE]

I am "assuming" that you are formulating this idea based on a portion of Matthew 2:40? Is that what it says? Is that how it should be explicitly interpreted? Perhaps there are other scripture that you base it upon?

It has always been a perplexing thought paraphrased into today's lingo.

What did Jesus know and when did he know it?
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DHK · May 27, 2014

quantumfaith said: ↑

DHK said: ↑

He was speaking as a man who had limited himself and his infinite knowledge at that specific time. At other times he used his omniscience.
The same is true with his omnipotence. He refrained from using his almighty power when going to the cross. He could have called 12 legions of angels but he didn't.
Yet, throughout his ministry, he calmed the raging sea, walked on water, changed water into wine, and raised Lazarus from the dead. This was a great display of his omnipotence. He didn't use this power all the time, only some of the time.
He didn't use his omniscience all of the time only some of the time.
Why was he able to answer all the questions of the Rabbis in the Temple at the age of 12? His parents had not taught him all of that knowledge. He relied on his Divine knowledge, his omniscience.[/QUOTE]

I am "assuming" that you are formulating this idea based on a portion of Matthew 2:40? Is that what it says? Is that how it should be explicitly interpreted? Perhaps there are other scripture that you base it upon?

It has always been a perplexing thought paraphrased into today's lingo.

What did Jesus know and when did he know it?
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I think you mean Luke 2:40; there are not 40 verses in Mat.2.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
--We know little about the early life of Christ. This is one good verse. "Filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him."
Even at the age of twelve, as they go and come from Jerusalem, Jesus is referred to as a child (2:43) "and the child remained behind."

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
--These were the Rabbis like Saul and Nicodemus, and presumably other members of the Sanhedrin. He was not only hearing but asking them questions.

Luke 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
--This was not normal. They hadn't seen this before. They were amazed at his understanding of Scripture and spiritual insight. Where did that come from. If he were fully man he could not have simply answered in that manner. He had to answer because he was deity, because he had revelation directly from God the Father. I believe his own remarks reinforce this.

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
--Don't you know that I should be about my Father's business. He was about His Father's business. He was receiving divine revelation and giving that revelation to others--instructing them in the ways of the Lord.
The next verse indicates that even his parents didn't understand him.

Luke 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
--It seems inconceivable from our point of view, given all the revelation that Mary had already received, that she would not have understood his words or what he was doing.

Even when Christ was much older, after his baptism, the general public still only considered him "the son of a carpenter," and nothing much more than that.
Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
--They were amazed at his wisdom, his miracles, but only knew him as Joseph's son, the carpenter's son. His wisdom and miracles came from God, because he was God. Only God could do the miracles he did. It is not enough to say: "The apostles could do miracles too."
The miracles Christ did could not be replicated by anyone, not even the apostles. The Apostles could not walk on water. They could not calm the sea. And especially they could not raise one from the dead such as Lazarus who had been dead and buried for a number of days. There were certain miracles that Jesus did that demonstrated his deity. Not even his disciples could replicate them. He was God.
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quantumfaith · May 28, 2014

DHK said: ↑

quantumfaith said: ↑

I think you mean Luke 2:40; there are not 40 verses in Mat.2.

Luke 2:40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.
--We know little about the early life of Christ. This is one good verse. "Filled with wisdom and the grace of God was upon him."
Even at the age of twelve, as they go and come from Jerusalem, Jesus is referred to as a child (2:43) "and the child remained behind."

Luke 2:46 And it came to pass, that after three days they found him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the doctors, both hearing them, and asking them questions.
--These were the Rabbis like Saul and Nicodemus, and presumably other members of the Sanhedrin. He was not only hearing but asking them questions.

Luke 2:47 And all that heard him were astonished at his understanding and answers.
--This was not normal. They hadn't seen this before. They were amazed at his understanding of Scripture and spiritual insight. Where did that come from. If he were fully man he could not have simply answered in that manner. He had to answer because he was deity, because he had revelation directly from God the Father. I believe his own remarks reinforce this.

Luke 2:49 And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?
--Don't you know that I should be about my Father's business. He was about His Father's business. He was receiving divine revelation and giving that revelation to others--instructing them in the ways of the Lord.
The next verse indicates that even his parents didn't understand him.

Luke 2:50 And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
--It seems inconceivable from our point of view, given all the revelation that Mary had already received, that she would not have understood his words or what he was doing.

Even when Christ was much older, after his baptism, the general public still only considered him "the son of a carpenter," and nothing much more than that.
Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works?
55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Whence then hath this man all these things?
--They were amazed at his wisdom, his miracles, but only knew him as Joseph's son, the carpenter's son. His wisdom and miracles came from God, because he was God. Only God could do the miracles he did. It is not enough to say: "The apostles could do miracles too."
The miracles Christ did could not be replicated by anyone, not even the apostles. The Apostles could not walk on water. They could not calm the sea. And especially they could not raise one from the dead such as Lazarus who had been dead and buried for a number of days. There were certain miracles that Jesus did that demonstrated his deity. Not even his disciples could replicate them. He was God.
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Yes, my mistake, thanks.
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