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Ordo Salutis 2 - The Regeneration :)

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Allan, Sep 24, 2008.

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  1. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    If I may ... I think the key lies in this --- faith is "given." It IS a gift. Faith is also proof (Heb 11:1). What proof? Indwelling proof!

    But where does proof come from? First from mental assent (in our spirits) -- then from repentance to the truth and application of the truth (to our souls). It is only then that God gives us the regenerating "earnest of our inheritance," the Holy Spirit, the "proof" that IS the faith of our salvation!

    And this works continuously in us "from faith to faith." We hear spiritual things now -- we apply them -- we receive more faith in the truth! Until we have a "pile of gold" in our souls, a "heap of silver" in our spirits, and an "abundance of precious stones" (spiritual gifts) in our bodies (1Cor 3)!

    skypair
     
    #101 skypair, Oct 27, 2008
  2. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    What makes us new is our complete surrender in humility. It seems some do not understand what a complete surrender is. It is giving up our rebellion. Our old life and our very self to be used of God any way He see's fit. In effect it is the turning over of our will's to Him.
    We become new in Christ when, we put on the righteousness of Christ. Putting on Christ is allowing Him to have control. Allowing Him to have authority over our lives.Truthfully He is the only one who can live our lives righteously.
    MB
     
    #102 MB, Oct 27, 2008
  3. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Sorry Skypair, no one that I know of holds to or has held this view of your in which you say - we must believe God and then God turns that belief into faith. But even if there was some one who might have it is still not correct exegetically, and more precisely - gramatically.

    Secondly, no one said that faith isn't a gift.

    But thirdly and most importantly to this thread - it is about regeneration not faith. You keep trying to bring up faith even after being asked not to shortly after the OP.

    This is speaking specifically to those who hold that regeneration includes justification, sanctification, righteousness, indwelling of the Holy SPirit, and being in Christ - BEFORE the excercising of faith because these things are the causation FOR excercising said faith.

    I want to look at the scripture as to when IT states we are justified, sanctified, righteous, indwelt, and IN Christ. And since the scriptures state these ALL happen through faith it can not possibly be something that transpires prior to the excercising of ones faith. In that same line of thought I want to know what EXACTLY being born again entails in order to accurately come to a biblical conclusion on the matter.
     
    #103 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2008
  4. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    I understand what you are saying brother.

    However the implication of 'no one' was directed more toward my Calvinistic brothers who make a particular claim but when I simply want to investigate more that what it does and why it supposedly does this (or has to happen a certain way), regeneration first then faith, but I get no real feed back as to "how" it is supposed to due this.

    With regard to your answer above the questions are still needing to be more concisely answered from scripture. I'm not saying I disagree or agree with you but there needs to be a little more :) . Like:

    What exactly is being made new? (this one I believe both Cals and non-Cals agree on).

    What exactly does this entail? (this one I believe as well is another but it will be important regarding the last question)

    When exactly does this happen?
     
    #104 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
  5. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    EXACTLY!! YOU hold what I do!! All I'm saying is that the "mechanism" by which God turns belief to faith is regeneration! I would think the Calvies could see this, too, wouldn't you?

    Calvies do -- and so does 1Cor 12:9! So you are the one "out of step."

    That, friend, is because it is RELEVANT! You can't talk about regeneration without talking about FAITH!

    You are regressing to a "belief" definition of "faith," allan. Here is what "transpires:" belief -- repentance -- regeneration/faith/born again/justified/sanctified/righteous/indwelt/IN Christ SIMULTANEOUSLY!!

    The thing is, you are trying to say "exercise faith" when we don't have any faith to exercise. We have "belief" -- "hope" that what we accepted as true is true. There is only one thing that "resonates" with our spirit before we repent and are regenerated -- that sin, righteousness, and judgment exist (John 16:8).

    And beyond this explanation, you don't understand because you REFUSE to consider that we have both soul and spirit. Therefore, your paradigm cannot even contemplate a differentiation between belief and faith but you NEED to! Your paradigm is "ensnared" by the Calvie model and you will never "get out" if your don't change your premises.

    skypair
     
    #105 skypair, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2008
  6. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    No, because no one but YOU claims such. No one else - just you.

    Your confused Sky. Calvinstist DO believe faith is a gift.

    No it isn't. We are talking about regeneration not belief and faith. I opened the OP to talk about the Regeneration NOT faith. Keep it on topic. Faith is part of the discussion LATER, much later. I am not stating it 'isn't' part of the topic however it is not the part as of yet that needs to be discussed.

    Sky, I will ask you one last time to keep to the sudject of the OP. Beyond that I will begin to ask the moderators to delete your posts. You have your own particular view that is contrary to ALL sides biblical study. That is fine but in THIS thread I am asking you to answer the questions or comment on post directly relating to 'regeneration' and focus on ''what it entails'' and 'how' it does this if faith is not required. We both agree that faith is required, but that particular question is posed to those who hold the aspects of regeneration happen before the excercising of ones faith.
     
    #106 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 28, 2008
  7. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    So these don't get lost I am reposting them:

     
    #107 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
  8. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Again so as not to get lost:

     
    #108 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
  9. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    This one is a responce to James post answering mine about life bring light and contextual problem with it (I reposted it 2 posts below or above this one - however you screen is set up).
     
    #109 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
  10. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    And lastly, what it comes back to (the OP). This is a posting to James specifically but those of Reformed beliefs generally:
     
    #110 Allan, Oct 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 27, 2008
  11. skypair

    skypair Active Member

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    I'm not confused, Allan. YOU are so "in the bag" with the Calvies! You can't beat your way out because you stay in the same confines as they are in!! YES, faith is a gift! Regeneration is, too!

    Is "light" a gift?

    skypair
     
    #111 skypair, Oct 28, 2008
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    John 3...

    The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
     
    #112 Jarthur001, Nov 27, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 27, 2008
  13. Allan

    Allan Active Member

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    Bump... bump... bump...
     
    #113 Allan, Dec 3, 2008
  14. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001 Active Member

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    oh yes.....

    Life comes before Life. :)

    John 1
     
    #114 Jarthur001, Dec 3, 2008
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