Original Sin Or Committed Sin

Ann, I promise you I will answer your question if you answer mine. :smilewinkgrin:
Tell us Ann, why have not all seen death?

 

HP: Notice carefully my 'good faith' explanation. :smilewinkgrin:

First distinguish between physical death and spiritual death. Physical death is a consequence of sin subsequent to the fall of man. We inherit physical degeneration via our physical connection to Adam. We acquire spiritual death as a result of personal sin against a known commandment of God. Natural physical death is a natural consequence of being born human and is not in and of itself blame or punishment for sin. Spiritual eternal death is in fact the direct results of our personal sin and will only eventually become permanent IF we fail to fulfill the required conditions God has given to embrace salvation through Jesus Christ our Lord.

HP: Absolutely, in some sense anyway. In the physical world around us everything that we see will see see death. Sin only exists in the moral realm.

 

Enoch and Elijah!

 

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

1 Corinthians 15:45-50 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

The contrast between the first Adam and the second Adam is stark. It is not only physical but spiritual. The passage teaches that Adam is the head of the human race; as Christ is the head of creation.

 

Not so fast Ann. You have not answered my question.

Why have not all seen death?

 

HP: If you desire to make this verse a universal statement of sin due to Adam, what stops universalism from claiming it makes their case as well when it states “in Christ shall ‘all’ be made alive?’

I find a much better approach to this verse in saying, as the physical association and being physical descendants of Adam we all will die a physical death (the rapture excluded), and if we are made descendants of Jesus Christ through salvation we will be made alive through that glorious association.

HP: I agree with everything here except the insinuation of the ‘federal headship doctrine’ which is not taught in Scripture in the manner in which you have been using it, i.e., ‘IN Adam we all sin.’

 

"In Christ shall all be made alive."
Is he speaking of physical or spiritual life? Why did Christ die on the cross?
Who is the "all" that he is speaking of? It is the all who trusted in Christ. All who believe in him are made alive.

Adam brought spiritual death; Christ brought spiritual life.

 

HP: I agree that Adam brought spiritual death, though not via a federal headship or a notion of original sin, but rather via the Scripturally expounded way, by following his example of sin, even though not all in the same manner as Adam sinned. We inherit sin by following in the example of Adam and committing sin (for ALL have sinned) much the same as we inherit spiritual life by following in Christ’s example and by trusting in His shed blood as an atonemnt for our sins. (many will be made righteous through Christ, NOT by force or coercion, but by voluntarily yielding our wills to the stated conditions and trusting by faith in His blood to atone for our sins)

 

HP: Do I have to do all your homework for you?

Let's see, in the case of Enoch he simply ‘was not’ for the Lord took him. Heb 11:5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should NOT SEE DEATH; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

In the case of Elijah, we have an eye witness account of him going home in a chariot of fire pulled by horses of fire and a whilrlwind. No bodies dropping dead or left on earth in either case. 2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

 

HP: Maybe not, according to you at least. Go ahead, you have the floor. Wax eloquent on the sins of Enoch and Elijah for the list........... but if I can remember anything about some that tried that with old Job, that perfect man before God, who loved God and eskewed evil, I might think twice before I would even start personally lest God reprove such a one.

 

Just answer the question Ann directly, anyway you so desire. :thumbsup:

 

What about Enoch and Elijah? :thumbsup: