Original Sin

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by Brother Adam, Oct 22, 2001.

  1. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    I was wondering if you could give me some insight into where this doctrine stemed from and what scripture is used to back it up. I'll be honest that I don't fully understand the idea of original sin.

    UNP, Adam
     
  2. Chris Temple

    Chris Temple
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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    I was wondering if you could give me some insight into where this doctrine stemed from and what scripture is used to back it up. I'll be honest that I don't fully understand the idea of original sin.

    UNP, Adam
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> Adam’s sin (Gen. 3:1–6) consisted in his yielding to the assaults of temptation and eating the forbidden fruit. It involved in it, (1) the sin of unbelief, virtually making God a liar; and (2) the guilt of disobedience to a positive command. By this sin he became an apostate from God, a rebel in arms against his Creator. He lost the favour of God and communion with him; his whole nature became depraved, and he incurred the penalty involved in the covenant of works.

    Original sin. “Our first parents being the root of all mankind, the guilt of their sin was imputed, and the same death in sin and corrupted nature were conveyed to all their posterity, descending from them by ordinary generation.” Adam was constituted by God the federal head and representative of all his posterity, as he was also their natural head, and therefore when he fell they fell with him (Rom. 5:12–21; 1 Cor. 15:22–45). His probation was their probation, and his fall their fall. Because of Adam’s first sin all his posterity came into the world in a state of sin and condemnation, i.e., (1) a state of moral corruption, and (2) of guilt, as having judicially imputed to them the guilt of Adam’s first sin.

    “Original sin” is frequently and properly used to denote only the moral corruption of their whole nature inherited by all men from Adam. This inherited moral corruption consists in, (1) the loss of original righteousness; and (2) the presence of a constant proneness to evil, which is the root and origin of all actual sin. It is called “sin” (Rom. 6:12, 14, 17; 7:5–17), the “flesh” (Gal. 5:17, 24), “lust” (James 1:14, 15), the “body of sin” (Rom. 6:6), “ignorance,” “blindness of heart,” “alienation from the life of God” (Eph. 4:18, 19). It influences and depraves the whole man, and its tendency is still downward to deeper and deeper corruption, there remaining no recuperative element in the soul. It is a total depravity, and it is also universally inherited by all the natural descendants of Adam (Rom. 3:10–23; 5:12–21; 8:7).

    Pelagians deny original sin, and regard man as by nature morally and spiritually well; semi-Pelagians regard him as morally sick; Augustinians, or, as they are also called, Calvinists, regard man as described above, spiritually dead (Eph. 2:1; 1 John 3:14).

    The doctrine of original sin is proved, (1.) From the fact of the universal sinfulness of men. “There is no man that sinneth not” (1 Kings 8:46; Isa. 53:6; Ps. 130:3; Rom. 3:19, 22, 23; Gal. 3:22). (2.) From the total depravity of man. All men are declared to be destitute of any principle of spiritual life; man’s apostasy from God is total and complete (Job 15:14–16; Gen. 6:5,6). (3.) From its early manifestation (Ps. 58:3; Prov. 22:15). (4.) It is proved also from the necessity, absolutely and universally, of regeneration (John 3:3; 2 Cor. 5:17). (5.) From the universality of death (Rom. 5:12–20).

    Various kinds of sin are mentioned, (1.) “Presumptuous sins,” or as literally rendered, “sins with an uplifted hand”, i.e., defiant acts of sin, in contrast with “errors” or “inadvertencies” (Ps. 19:13). (2.) “Secret”, i.e., hidden sins (19:12); sins which escape the notice of the soul. (3.) “Sin against the Holy Ghost” (q.v.), or a “sin unto death” (Matt. 12:31, 32; 1 John 5:16), which amounts to a wilful rejection of grace. - Easton's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
     
  3. Helen

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    Here's a little more, Adam.

    First of all, look at what Satan did with Eve (it's worth a look because he has never had to do anything different with any of us since!)

    1. "Did God REALLY say....?" Question the word of God. Challenge it. This is the first element of the temptation

    2. "You can figure it out for yourself!" This is 'being like God' and 'understanding good and evil.'

    The truth is that we don't dare question our Creator, who Himself defines the truth by Himself, and we cannot possibly really understand or 'know' good and evil or become like a god or God. But that is all that Satan has ever had to tempt any of us with.

    So why do we keep falling for it? God explains in almost a throwaway comment to Noah in Genesis 8:21, since Adam 'every inclination' of man's heart 'is evil from childhod.' If it helps to think of it this way, our tendency toward evil is sort of like a spiritual genetic mutation Adam caused and was then passed on to all men ('man' and 'men' being used in a generic sense here).

    This is why we need new hearts. This is why we need to be born again in Christ, and our old nature killed, if we are to be 'qualified' for heaven.

    So the doctrine started with God, if you like, in Genesis 8:21. It is expounded upon by Paul as well as being a major theme throughout the Bible.

    I think I differ with Chris in some aspects, as, although we are all born with sin natures, or hearts tending toward evil, that does not make us automatically guilty of sinning. Paul deals with this in Romans 7:7-11 where he bluntly states that without the law sin has no power. That doesn't mean sin isn't there -- but it does mean that it cannot separate someone from God who does not know the law (spiritual death is separation from God, not spiritual unconsciousness. See John 17:4). This means that, although tiny ones and profoundly retarded may sin by nature, they are not held guilty as they cannot comprehend the law. This makes the OT sacrifice for unknown sins of utmost importance when considering that Jesus was the one sacrifice for all sins for all time.

    So the doctrine of original sin has to do with the natural tendencies of the hearts of all people at all times. Keep in mind that tendencies does not mean we don't expect them to be controlled, saved or unsaved. That is what every legal system in the world is about! We expect people to have some self-control over their natural tendencies! (If you think about it, no one has to command what comes naturally. Therefore the Ten Commandments and Jesus' Two Commandments are clearly items that don't come naturally and therefore require a new heart to fulfill them.)

    Hope that also helps a little.

    Helen

    It is those tendencies themselves which are the mark of original sin. After that, we manage to do quite nicely on our own finding all sorts of sins to express that heart with. James puts it well:

    "...each one is tempted when by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death." (1:14-15)
     
  4. Brother Adam

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    Thank you for the information!

    Helen- does a person know the law when they are taught the law? or do they know the law when they know the difference between right and wrong?

    UNP, Adam
     
  5. Scott J

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    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by flyfree432:
    Thank you for the information!

    Helen- does a person know the law when they are taught the law? or do they know the law when they know the difference between right and wrong?

    UNP, Adam
    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    Paul answers this in Romans 2.
     
  6. Rev. Joshua

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    Adam,

    The relationship between the concept of original sin and Christian theology was codified by St. Augustine. For the life of my, I can't remember which writings offer it in the most detail; but he is the grandfather of all Christian tradition regarding how we correlate Genesis with Christ.

    Joshua
     
  7. Kathy

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    Speaking of Adam & Eve, we are their children are we not? Of course...well, we are suffering for their transgression right? From what I've read in the OT so far, children (who later become adults) suffer for the transgressions of their parents...is this still happening aside from the obvious Adam and Eve? I mean, am I suffering for the sins of my mother and father?

    Kathy
    &lt;&gt;&lt;
     
  8. Rev. Joshua

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    Kathy,

    Per Deut: 5:9, it can happen.

    Per Ezekiel 18:19-20 - generally not.

    According to Jesus, we are either enslaved entirely to sin, or free of it completely (John 8:34-38). In addition, we are now "children of God" so I think we're safe.

    Joshua
     
  9. Slain Arminian

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    Wouldn't that be ironic if Adam were one of the elect? Would he look down with condemnation to the offspring whom he had infected with sin?
     
  10. Roadrunner

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    'Original sin' is a term that is not used in some circles. Another (more familiar) way to describe it is inherited sin, or the sin nature.
     
  11. Brother Adam

    Brother Adam
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    Once again thank you for all the information.

    UNP, Adam
     
  12. ddavis

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    roadrunner, can we add one more to your list like the adamic nature.
     
  13. Roadrunner

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    &lt;roadrunner, can we add one more to your list like the adamic nature.&gt;

    I have never heard of that one; but don't be alarmed, I don't get out much!
     
  14. ddavis

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    roadrunner, i've always known how little i knew and after joining the BB it was confirmed, i don't get out much either, or is it iether? :confused: :confused: :D

    [ November 02, 2001: Message edited by: ddavis ]
     

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