Orthodoxy & Heresy

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Aug 22, 2006.

  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    What came 1st... Orthodoxy or Heresy?

    Some view that many church doctrines were not around until a heresy arose. Heresy then it is said is caused by God to build his church strong in doctrine. This can be seen thoughout the church age.

    Was this part of Gods plan?

    Your ideas please.
     
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    Case in point....

    Early in the church there was no set wording saying what the canon of the Bible was. Everyone just kinda knew what the books of the Bible were. Then along came Marcion and said Luke and the 10 books by Paul were the only true Bible. He removed the OT all together and even changed some wording in Luke.

    This is when the Church had to define what books were in the canon and what were left out. It was based on the heresy of Marcion.

    Most doctrines came about the same way. After a heresy, a need came to state doctrine on the matter.
     
  3. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    I see the sovereign hand of Almighty God throughout history. Yes, I believe God allowed the heresy(ies) to arise, so Christians would be compelled to articulate doctrine that was already well-known and accepted.

    I see the same kind of sovereignty today, especially in the area of the inspiration/authority of scripture. The fact that so many "learned" men attacked the authority of scripture compelled believers to research the original languages; not only in scripture, but also in ancient inscriptions and other sources.

    The result is an exciting "re-discovery", if you will, of a more in-depth understanding of many passages of scripture, and a reconcilation of passages that presented difficulties for those who held to plenary inspiration.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  4. Jack Matthews

    Jack Matthews
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2006
    Messages:
    833
    Likes Received:
    1
    Really? I see nothing but extremely complicated explanations and a reliance on human wisdom to explain the multitide of contradictions and differences of interpretations that arise from a verbal, plenary view of the inspiration of scripture. That view also creates a difficulty when attempting to reconcile the variant texts among existing early manuscripts.

    "Heresy" is the result of human error that crept into the church going almost as far back as the church itself. The compulsion to arrive at doctrines of consensus by either majority opinion or insistence on a pure translation of scripture has produced even further division, along with the inability to separate elements of the culture of the period and society of the time the Bible was written from its principles and teaching produces further argument and disagreement over things that, IMHO, God doesn't care about. Then you have all sorts of human conclusions that get themselves worked into "doctrine." The idea that the King James Version is the "preserved Word of God in English," or the lengthy, but completely Biblically unsupported Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy are the results of that kind of thinking. Perhaps there is a group who can line their doctrine up with each other, but in the bitter, hostile arguments that result, their testimony for Christ and witness to his redeeming power are lost. The end result of that is salvation by works and fear of not being doctrinally pure that produces a legalistic religion instead of freedom in Christ.
     
    #4 Jack Matthews, Aug 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2006
  5. skypair

    skypair
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Messages:
    4,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Guys,

    I believe your answer is 1 Corinthians 11:19 (KJV) "For there must be also heresies [sects] among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you."

    God has allowed (permissive will) there to be divisions in the church for the purpose of manifesting approved doctrine. How so? By biblical study, prayer, and revelation to believers -- Berean-style!

    skypair
     
  6. psalms109:31

    psalms109:31
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2006
    Messages:
    3,600
    Likes Received:
    0
    Scripture is our doctrine

    Men have always wanted to put God's word in man's understanding.

    The only problem is that thier doctrine is usually missing some of God's word and is not the complete truth.

    The whole truth of God is found in the scripture God has given to us.

    We cannot place God in a box of man made doctrine as the pharisees and sagisees did.

    If God said something He means it, we might not understand it, but we are not called to understand, but to believe.

    Men will come against us and force their doctrine us, but those who stand firm to the end shall be saved
     
    #6 psalms109:31, Aug 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 23, 2006
  7. El_Guero

    El_Guero
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2004
    Messages:
    7,714
    Likes Received:
    0
    the cookie monster ate that post . . .

    Oh well, I think orthodoxy came first. Next came heresy . . . trouble and then return to orthodoxy . . .
     
  8. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's how I read the Bible as well.

    And for further reference (and with apologies in advance to Jeff Foxworthy, even though I'm the real small-farmer redneck and he is the store-bought version), "If you disagree with me, 'You might be a heretic!'." :rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh: :smilewinkgrin:

    Ed
     
  9. J.D.

    J.D.
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2006
    Messages:
    3,553
    Likes Received:
    8
    Good answer. Truth comes first, then heresy. God gave a command, afterwards, the devil contradicted it.
     
  10. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    Noted several fairly good answers in this thread. :type: 'Course, "I may be a heretic (heretick - KJV) ..." :rolleyes:, for I basically agree with much of the "Chicago Statements".:laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
    #10 EdSutton, Aug 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2006
  11. Gold Dragon

    Gold Dragon
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2005
    Messages:
    3,837
    Likes Received:
    3
    I agree that church history commonly displays this trend of unarticulated orthodoxy leading to heresy leading to articulated orthodoxy.
     
  12. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2005
    Messages:
    5,701
    Likes Received:
    0
    This is by view. Truth comes 1st, .....yes truth WAS and ISfor God is truth. Truth is truth even if we do not understand. Truth was there from the beginning. The Apostles, though they walked with Christ and was taught 1st hand by our Lord, and though the truth was in front of them all the time, they did not understand at 1st. Some understood many things when the stone was rolled away, still others had to see Christ 1st hand. Even after this, they did not understand all. As time went by, Holy Spirit worked in their hearts, bring back teachings of Christ and they understood. And...they begin to write about it, and preach about it, so that others could understand. Its much easier for us, for the many have went though this and wrote on what not to believe, so that we can have the understanding. Yet, If you are like me, I did not understand it all at 1st, though it was true.

    This is the case in the 2nd century as well. Many doctrines were set in the 2nd century, but this does not mean this is when the truth started. The word orthodoxy, from the Greek ortho ('right', 'correct') and doxa ('thought', 'teaching', 'glorification') means correct teaching. When wrong teaching came about church leaders had to express in words the right doctrine, so that there would be no misunderstanding. After all, every one did not have a Bible setting on their coffee table. It was more like what Gold Dragon stated above...

    1st) unarticulated orthodoxy ( I would just say truth was always there)
    2nd) leading to heresy (Truth twisted)
    3rd) leading to articulated orthodoxy (Doctrine was set in writing, based on the truth of Gods Word)

    Therefore, to me it is clear that heresy was used by God to make our understanding stronger.


    In Christ.....James
     
    #12 Jarthur001, Aug 24, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 24, 2006

Share This Page

Loading...