OSAS? (An example)

"My interpretation of scriptures is not that you can lose your faith but you will suffer if you do not adhere to it..."
When one who once believes in "anything", then changes their mind and ceases to believe in that "anything", one has lost faith in that "anything". It is really that simple

"Many in the scriptures shipwrecked their faith but they are still eternally saved..."
Do you have specific examples of those who lost their faith in God being eternally saved? Let's exclude the Jews as they are God's elect and receive different treatment from the earliest records.

"What you are implying Yelsew is what YOU DR DO NOT DO... SAVES YOU!..."
Then you are simply not paying attention to what I have said. I have steadfastly and clearly stated that Salvation is not of anything we "do" but is directly the result of the condition of our faith when we appear in the next life. We have this 120 year (max) period of natural life to come to faith in God (Jesus). When we leave this natural life, our faith condition is we either have faith in God or we do not have faith in God. It is our faith alone that determines whether we are judged or escape judgement because of our faith in Jesus. (John 3:18) That is completely biblical! That is God's plan.

"If that is the case why did Jesus Christ come?..."
a. To establish a new covenant of God,
b. to establish the institution, His church-based on the truth of who and what Jesus is, that would continue the remembrance of that covenant, and,
c. most importantly to deal with sins. His death on the Cross is God's means of atoning for the sins of ALL mankind in one very significant sacrificial event.

He succeeded resoundingly!

"To give you a chance at SALVATION... To give you a choice?..."
God did the work, it is now up to us to accept or reject on an individual basis, using the God given capabilities that each and every one of us has and retains to believe or not believe.

"Sorry GRACE and choice or chance or decision don't match... NEVER the twain shall meet!..."
God behaves in accordance with HIS grace toward us...believe it or not (our choices)!

That is how it works. Choice cannot exist without Grace, and Grace has no purpose without Choice.

"They are two separate points parallel into infinity and NEVER shall join... NEVER shall meet..."
Grace enables choice!
Choice cannot take place in the absence of Grace!

That is because the wage paid for sin is death, and wages, according to scripture, must be paid daily! With God behaving graciously toward mankind, the wage that is paid for sin is withheld from us, therefore we can live the full extent of the years given to each of us by God in accordance with our choices and the inherent consequences of our choices!

"My FAITH IS JESUS CHRIST... ALL OF IT!... Without it I have nothing..."
Good! Jesus is the only Savior!

"SOVEREIGN GRACE is ALL there is in the ETERNAL SALVATION domain..."
No where in scripture does it say that we are saved by sovereign grace! Scriptures, both OLD and NEW declare it is our individual Faith in the Savior through which we are saved.

"You can't buy it!... You can't purchase it because it is FREE!..."
Not of works, lest any man should boast...

"There is nothing you or I or anyone else can do to have it... IT IS A GIFT!..."
Every gift must be accepted by the recipient in order for it to be a gift. You cannot give something to someone if they refuse to accept it! It is that simple!

"Given to God's children through the sacrifice of Christ and is bought with his sinless blood."
The Sacrifice of Jesus the Christ does not bring salvation to anyone! It atones for the sins of Everyone, so that sin is not a factor in eternal life. Faith Alone is what brings eternal life (John 3:16).

As I said before, Faith could not be possible if God does not behave in accordance with HIS GRACE. There is coming a time with God withholds his grace from this heaven and earth. When that comes, this heaven and earth "shall pass away", to be replaced with a New Heaven and New Earth, with the New Earth's New Jerusalem.

"Fellowship with Jesus Christ and the Father as you live in the world is dependent upon your walk!..."
Yes that is true, and your walk is entirely and totally dependent upon what you believe and in whom you have faith! No one has a walk that is different than their internal beliefs.

"YOU SUFFER HERE!... You will NEVER suffer hereafter because you belong to Jesus Christ and he payed for ALL your sins and ALL the sins of ALL his children... There are no sins held against you as Jesus Christ stood where you could not and payed the price you could not because your blood is polluted and you are from the loins of Adam!... Question... Will Jesus Christ SAVE ALL the Father gave him?... If not why not when the Bible explicitly states none will be eternally lost in HELL!... Brother Glen [Smile]"
The scripture does not say that Jesus' atonement for sin was only for "all his children" It says for the "sins of the world". Why do you have difficulty understanding clear and plain scripture? The answer to your question is of who will be saved is that Whosoever believeth in Him shall have eternal life (salvation from the second death). Both the OLD and the NEW Testaments declare it is individual FAITH in God that pleases God therefore, whosoever has Faith in the Father IS A CHILD OF GOD! God himself declares that He has but ONE begotten son. That is one Son having the life essence (spirit) of God. All that the rest of us can have is the Holy Spirit of God through our faith! Jesus had the Spirit of God through the conception process! And that is why the conception of Jesus is called the Immaculate Conception.

 

I exclude the Jews, because it seems none of us are Jews in direct lineage. We are all Gentiles, brothers to the Jews through our Faith in God. The message that Jesus brought to the Jews was subsequently given to the Gentiles because of the hardness of the Jews as an ethnicity. There are scriptures that deal specifically with the fate of the Jews, that do not necessarily apply to the Gentiles. The age of the gentiles is distinctly defineable in scripture by the Hardness of the Jews. When the hardness of the Jews is taken away by God, the age of the gentiles is over.

Like the Gentiles, Jews are also required to come to the Father in FAITH. So the fact that their hearts are hardened to Jesus does not change that simple truth. It was for the Jews that Jesus is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. It was for us Gentiles that the Jews were hardened.

Frogman, I do take offense at your snide remark about me listening to the teachings of others. How, pray tell, did you get your opinions? Are they yours exclusively, with no 'outside' influence, or were they formed by the "teachings" of others. Do you read the bible? do you not think the bible is written by "others"? Yes! Inspired by God, but written by men. My "opinions" are inspired by God, influenced by excellent teachers, and even though I may have first heard them from other men, I, like the Beraeans, search the scriptures to see that what I have heard from the teachings of "others" is true to the messages of God's Holy Word.

By making your remark about me, you indicate that you think I do not have the intelligence necessary to read the scriptures and understand them for myself. That would simply violates scriptures itself, because God's word is made simple for even the "most simple" of God's created men can understand His word. Yet, it confounds the wise, as it seems to have done to you.

 

God does not fail, but man can because man looks to "other Gods".

You obviously cannot read or you, in your bias, elect to overlook what I say.

It never has been, God established the way He does business, but he does allow us to choose for ourselves.

Please take the time to read my post.

Touche! Now that that is out of the way, may we never revisit the arena of putdowns!

As a gift, it must be received and retained. Again, it is not God who fails it is man!

No, you are wrong, We disagree because we have differing "revealed perceptions of the truth". It has nothing to do with "preconceived notions". We debate because we willingly expose our inner beliefs for debate!

I have never said that the gift of eternal life is by GRACE! I have always and consistantly said that eternal life is the result of our FAITH which is enabled by Grace. Eternal life is the Promise given to those who believe in Jesus, even on his Name. The condition of our faith when we depart the flesh determines whether or not we receive the Gift of Eternal life or the judgment and second death.

No again you are wrong. All faith that the human develops can be lost. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God. Faith is not something that God must have, He is not in need of faith, He is omniscient...Knows ALL! There is nothing he must learn! It is we humans that learn to have faith in what we read, hear, see, taste, feel, and sense with our spirit. If we can believe it, we can unbelieve it! If at first we believe based on "superficial" or "cursory" evaluation, we can unbelieve due to further "in depth" evaluation, and we can have our initial belief confirmed and strengthened through further evaluation. Is faith a gift? No, it is the substance of the perception of truth hoped for, the evidence that things not seen exists. If what is hoped for does not exist, one's faith is vain!

If that is what you believe, OK! But I have explained what the scriptures say about faith and how we get it. I have also explained the faith process in human existance. It is not something that is induced into us but something that develops in us through our senses, all six of them.

Can you not remove your hair or kill yourself thus controlling those aspects of life? True, you cannot add hair where no hair exists without moving it from some other place on your body, and you cannot extend you life beyone the limit God sets for man, but faith is not physical like hair and life. Faith is transient, it can strengthen and it can wane. What we do with our faith determines which.

First, God did not make gods! He established the parameters within which man can live his life, both physically and spiritually. God gave man the latitude to live and expects man to know Him, after all we are made in the image of God, and it is His will (not order, but rather desire) that man will want of his own free will to submit to Him. He made us with the ability to choose to do so.

I would not have chosen to take your comment personally if you had not deliberately targeted me in your comment! Apology accepted, forgiveness given!

How can you say that the bible is not filtered through the social and cultural biases of men? It was written over 1600 years by over 40 different authors. It cannot help but contain social and cultural biases. For example, in the New Testament, blood sacrifice was not the practice in the temples as is described in the Old Testament! Our present society is not dependent animal blood sacrifices but upon the one sacrifice of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The Corinthian Christians were subject to social conditions different than the Romans, and the Ephesians, etc. Paul addressed his letters to each of them with their social and cultural biases in mind as well as his own. You are simply not looking my friend! Each of the prophets wrote out of their own biases, etc. David certainly wrote out of his own biases. What they had in Common was their faith in Almighty God and obedience to HIS "breathings".

 

The Immaculate Conception is a RCC doctrine and it has nothing to do with the conception of Jesus. The doctrine states that Mary, the mother of Jesus was free from original sin. Get your facts straight. </font>[/QUOTE]You believe it your way, I'll believe it mine.

The fact that God who is spirit, did not have sexual relations with the virgin maid, Mary, who is human, yet conceived the life of His ONLY begotten Son in her womb, makes Jesus conception completely immaculate! The Spirit of Deity in the flesh of Humanity! How much more immaculate can it be by any other description?

 

Then, with the exception of the historically provable items in the bible, virtually all of the bible requires faith to accept and trust the validity. Therefore you should not trust any of it because you do not have the evidence. . . BUT YOU DO! Don't you!

You do because once you first believed the first part of it, the spirit of God confirmed the validity to you.

 

As far as "immaculate conception" is concerned, I have taken a phase, from what ever source, and applied it with my own definition. The conception of Jesus in the womb of Mary by the power of the most High God who is spirit is truly immaculate! Never before and never again has there been or will there be another like it.

Just like 'easter' which was a pagan celebration that Christianity adopted and set straight. Immaculate Conception is a concept to which I adapted my own meaning. Who cares that it was Catholic false doctrine? My way makes it good!

Besides, it is not Mary who conceived, it was Jesus who was conceived in Mary's womb. Mary's conception occured when her parents got together.