OT truths not taught anymore

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Larry in Tennessee, Jun 25, 2003.

  1. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    Homosexuality and abortion are readily accepted by society. Why is that? Obviously because of man's sin nature, but that is true of every generation, most of which did not embrace these things. Is it because so many people see mankind as an evolved monkey, rather than a special creation of God.

    The acceptance of evolution is rampant in society, but the Church has not come against it. We have, to some extent, sought political solutions through the courts, ect, but we do not, at least in my experience, teach creation in our churches anymore. Do we need to get back to teaching creation as an absolute truth in the Church, rather than assuming everyone already knows it?

    And how about the world? How can we expect others to repent and come to Christ, if they don't really understand what sin is. The world thinks sin is anything that Christians don't approve of, but do they really understand what sin is? We need to help people understand that we inherited this sin nature because of Adam's fall, but we can't do this unless we first understand that Adam was a real person who was really created by God.

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Jamal5000

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    If only it was that easy. [​IMG]

    Homosexuality continues to exist as acceptable because we, as a US Constitutionalized people, cannot promote inequality (even though we can quietly promote immorality). The same goes with abortion (even though I see that "sin" as personalized sin in line with Romans 14).

    In the end, it goes back to the uncomfortable position that we hold as Americans in straddling the fence of pleasing everybody and maintaining a moral character in society.

    I don't think its rampant--prevalent but not rampant. Then again...I guess it depends on the area of the US. Down here in good ol' SC, most people don't really know what evolution really is exactly. On the other hand, up in Philadelpha, my uncle deals with people staunchily against anything other than Darwin's theory. The believet he church can only work on a friend-to-friend basis (I mean that literally).

    I think the problem with sin comes from our own hypocrisy and unwillingness to admit that we as Christians sin EVERYDAY, but we chose not to confess them and testify about them. Instead we give dry, overly general examples of our fallen-nature-saved-by-God's grace.

    Most of the sins that we need to witness about are too embarrassing for us to admit. That's where we fail to fully define sin.

    J5Grand
     
  3. Artimaeus

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    That's a very broad subject. It's like trying to identify which particular straw broke the camel's back. In an effort to be "reasonable", Christians have been compromising a thousand different ideas a "little bit" each day until we no longer have a leg to stand on. We want to be thought of as "tolerant" (in the good sense of "not wanting to start a lynch party") and we end up trying to be tolerant (in the bad sense of accepting as legitimate and equally viable). Homosexuality, abortion, and evolution are just three of the important issues Christians have compromised on. Modesty, foul language, gambling, divorce, lack of discipline (self and children), and many, many more. Look at the discussions on this board. Look at the percentages of people who are willing to "fudge" their beliefs in order to appear reasonable. 50 years ago almost NO Christian was willing to entertain the idea that ANY of these ideas were OK but as we go along there are more and more who "not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.".
     
  4. Sularis

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    Nah its more the fact that too many churches are willing to state publicly:

    "...The OT has been completed, and because of the new covenant in the blood of Christ and grace it has no bearing on us whatsoever. We will not teach from the OT unless it has been backed up by the NT..."

    Also it has to do with the fact that too many Christians are snot-nosed, upperclass, holier than thou, criticizing monsters.

    seee what i mean ;)

    We break sin into little categories, so we can justify our attitudes, just as we break God down, so we can say yes election/predestination is the ONLY way - there is NO way that God could use both election and free will - I just wont allow Him too.

    We break ourselves down into ageist categories in order to attack other ages, we break down gender lines in order to make the other submit in a more biblistical fashion, we break down financial lines - so that we can stay comfortable

    And we especially break ourselves down along sin lines

    Like lying not so bad - getting drunk thats normal
    adultery - we cast thee out - homosexuality we cast thee out - oh yer a thief not so bad

    Ill admit - I do it too - I try not too, but those rich folk are wierd - give me nice middle class, with a touch of upper or less of a touch of lower then you have it

    We need to be ourselves and realize that yes despite the fact im an ugly freak i could marry someone mildly attractive, and Christian too!

    The OT is just as valid today as it was in the past - yes grace covers all - but think about it - God said here do this do that
     
  5. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    I guess the point I'm getting at is this. I hear many Christians who say that it dosen't matter whether you believe the Genesis stories of Adam, Noah, ect, are literal of not, because they are not essential to salvation. I don't understand this line of reasoning. It seems to me that the creation story in Genesis is essential to the doctrine of salvation. If there was not a real Adam, then he did not fall. If he did not fall, then he did not bring sin into the world, and there is no original sin, therefore, there was no need for Christ to die. Since he did fall, and brought a sin nature onto all of mankind, then it was necessary for God to intervene on our behalf. Because of our sin nature, inherited from Adam, we are unable to save ourselves, therefore God is the only one who is able to save us.

    Which brings me back to my question. Does the world really understand what sin is? Many of the lost have never darkened the door of a church, and many of them treat stories like creation and the flood with the same seriousness that they take Peter Pan. The Church, as a whole hasn't helped the situation. As I said, many Christians question whether Genesis should be taken literally. If the Church won't state with certainty that our sin nature came from Adam, then how can we convince anyone of their need for a Savior?
     
  6. Dr. Bob

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    Romans 3:20 "through the Law comes the knowledge of sin." Churches at best are only preaching the Gospel. Nobody is preaching Law.

    The "world" gets its moral values from the media, which is bankrupt. We need a return to preaching the WHOLE counsel of God, not just an anemic Gospel without repentance and sin.
     
  7. just-want-peace

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    There's a book by Ken Ham, (I think), that deals with this exact problem. I have it, but can't find it right now.

    His premise is that without hearing, accepting, and believing in Genesis, there is no foundation to try to convince someone that they need Christ!

    I'm sure that I've over-simplified his actual argument, but the gist of his thrust is that if there is no logical foundation for human existence and original sin, there is no reason to expect an un-believer to see any reason to accept Christ.

    He gives several examples of witnessing to no avail, but then beginning with Genesis, conversions are forthcoming.

    Soon's I find the book, I'll get the title posted.
     
  8. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    Amen Dr. Bob! [​IMG]
     
  9. Artimaeus

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    Without the foundation of the first 11 chapters of Genesis the rest of the Bible falls like a house of cards.
     
  10. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    I guess this was my main point I was trying to make, but you said it much better. [​IMG]
     
  11. John Wells

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    The first 11 chapters of Genesis are paramount to the gospel.

    If evolution happened, then death was widespread before man evolved. But if death preceded man and was not a result of Adam's sin, then sin is a fiction. If sin is a fiction, then we do not need a Savior. If there was no real "first Adam," then the reference to Jesus as the "second Adam" is delusional!

    The Bible teaches that death is the direct result of sin: "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men, because all sinned." Romans 5:12

    This is not a parable by Jesus, or some hypothetical, abstract postulation. It is what God inspired Paul to record as FACT in God's revelation to man. It stands in direct conflict with the evolutionists' claim that death is from the beginning, ages before the first human evolved. If "death" was not the by-product of sin, then a sinless sacrifice will not conquer death, as God's Word claims Jesus did.
     
  12. newlady3203

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    We are nearing the end of our teen/adult revival. Our guest preacher is Brother Steve Blankenship. He is a preacher who preaches to our nation's juvenile delinquents. He has been doing a lot of preaching out of the Old Testament. I know that he stepped on a lot of toes this week. Last night he preached on Jeremiah 19. He let those teens know that through the example of Jeremiah 19, the Lord will only deal with you but for so long before he breaks the vessel and you can no longer receive Him. If I had heard a preacher preach the truth like he does a long time ago, I would have gotten saved way back then. On Wednesday night he preached about hell. On Tuesday night he preached, I can't remember the book or chapter, but in summing it, he preached that if you keep pushing God away eventually He will go away and stop bothering you.

    We need preachers to start preaching the WHOLE Bible, I agree. We need preachers to preach His wrath as well as His love. People out there need to know that yes, our God is a loving God. But, our God is also one who must chastize and/or punish those who refuse to obey His word. There are only parts of OT that do not apply anymore because He gave the ultimate sacrifice. But, there is a lot that we still need to adhere to.

    Christians and non-believers alike have been commanded to fear God. Christians have been commanded to fear God and obey his commandments and laws. We, as a whole, need to stop being rainy day Christians, reading the parts of the Bible that soothe and comfort; and start reading the parts that warn us of disobedience.
     
  13. Johnv

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    If we're worried about "OT truths not taught anymore", perhaps we could try following the Ten COmmandments instead of saying "oh, but we're not under the law anymore".

    We as Christians violate the Ten basic truths, and then get upset when other people aren't following OT truths. Isn't that a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?
     
  14. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    John, I don't know any Christians who wilfully violate the Ten Commandments. All of the Christians I know personally hold them dear.
     
  15. Johnv

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    We've had hot debates over the 4th commandment (keeping the Sabbath Day holy). Some have even said that this commandment doesn't apply to us. I disagree. While we're not told which day the Sabbath day is, we're told to worship and rest on the Sabbath. Few of us do.

    There have also been debates over whether or not taking post-it notes is violating the 8th commandment. A few folks have said that cheating on your taxes is not stealing.

    THere have been posts saying that breaking the speed limit is okay, while others assert that it's a form of coveting.

    We go on and on about homosexuality (which, unless one of the parties is married) disn't among the Ten Commandments, but we frequently excuse out own breaking of the commandments that are listed.
     
  16. Larry in Tennessee

    Larry in Tennessee
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    You are right, good point.

    Taking anything which does not belong to us violates the 8th commandment.

    Christ told us to give unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and unto God what belongs to God.

    We are also told to obey those in athority over us, which would include the law of the land.

    But it is clearly defined as sin in God's Word.

    Guilty as charged. You've brought up a very valid point John. Hopefully I, as well as others, will think before trying to excuse sin next time. Thanks for your insight.
     

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