Our church and Jesus Dolls

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by tinytim, Dec 14, 2006.

  1. tinytim

    tinytim
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    I know this has been controversial here in the past, but here goes...
    Our church has been given a donation of 96 Jesus dolls to give out for Christmas... the shipment arrived today... the whole church is excited.

    Here is a link to my blog, where I posted the article that will be written in our town's newspaper...

    http://tinytim.wordpress.com/2006/12/14/jesus-dolls-take-2/
     
  2. blackbird

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    Tim???

    What in "Tarnation" is a Jesus doll????
     
  3. Jim1999

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    Quote:
    What in "Tarnation" is a Jesus doll????

    -------------------------------------------------

    A mexican doll. It is pronounced Hesu.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. mnw

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    Seldom has a post title got my attention so quickly!

    Tim, I think you are maybe in for a rough ride... :)

    Do the dolls talk? If so, which version? :tongue3:

    BTW, google would not define tarnation for me...
     
  5. tinytim

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    Sorry, I should have included this info....

    http://www.messengersoffaith.net/Jesus.html

    or http://www.messengersoffaith.net/index.html

    Yeah, I know a few folks here frowned upon the idea when I posted the news report last month that the Toys for Tots program refused to give them out for Christmas because they did not want to offend muslim and Jewish families.

    But that is OK.. I ran the idea past our church, and we view it as a witnessing opportunity to help share the love of Jesus to children here.

    Some on the board thought it was a good idea. I would say that BB is split 50/50. But I am not one to act on what the polls say, I get my direction from God.

    The scripture it speaks is from the NIV.
    If you follow the links from the link in this post, you can see a list of verses that it speaks.

    Like I said, I know there is some opposition, but I still feel God is leading us to do this, so on we go....
     
    #5 tinytim, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2006
  6. tinytim

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    Oh, another thing....
    For those that say that a doll in the form of Jesus is blasphemy, let me ask you this question...

    Do you have a nativity scene with a baby Jesus?
    What do you use in your Christmas pageants, a doll to represent Jesus?

    After reading the thread about nativity scenes, I would understand how some that are against nativity scenes in that thread would kick on a Jesus doll... And that is expectable... at least they will be consistant.
    But if you kick on a Jesus Doll, and use a nativity scene either at church or home you are being inconsistant.

    Ok, I'll go away for now. :tongue3: :tongue3:
     
  7. I Am Blessed 24

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    Sounds good, Tim, except the Jesus doll has long hair... :laugh:
     
  8. preachinjesus

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    the doll sort of looks like Val Kilmer from The Saint.

    Besides it's caucasian...;)

    I could care less about the controversy, I just find it humorous...:)
     
  9. blackbird

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    Sooooooooo ----- if Blackbird is "reading" his Illinois buddy correctly --- Jesus is a "Hippie"
     
  10. Amy.G

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    I don't think a Jesus doll is blasphemy or a natitivity for that matter. But have you ever watched little boys play? They turn everything into weapons. I can just see them using Jesus as a torpedo or spear or banging sister over the head with it. Little girls will probably have Him marrying Barbie. Maybe Mom and Dad should only use the doll for Bible study. Just some thoughts. :1_grouphug:
     
  11. webdog

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    Tim, for those who oppose it, I would like to know what they are doing to reach children. I don't see it as a "graven image" as the intent is not to worship the doll itself. I think it's a great idea that should go over well with children.

    Of course the strict "fundies" (modern definition) will say you don't need such things...you should be handing out AV1611's and sermon notes from Spurgeon. The Holy Spirit will do the rest.
     
  12. Rufus_1611

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    Comparing what other people do to scripture is unnecessary as scripture trumps the deeds of men. Even the righteousness that men do, is like filthy rags to a righteous God. However, to address your question, this person (who is opposed to graven images of the Godhead made out of plastic) sponsors a Compassion International child, hosts foster children and hosts exchange students in an attempt to reach children. For the Compassion child we interact via snail mail and try to edify a young Christian sister living in less than ideal circumstances (though we suspect she lifts us up more than we do her) For the foster kids, rather than give them the Word of God via plastic art, we give them the Word of God through the oral reading of scripture. The exchange students attend church with us and we witness to them as best we know how.

    The expression "graven image" has nothing to do with worship. A barbie doll is a graven image of a bimbo, a Jesus doll is a graven image of a Saviour. Thus, what we are discussing here are, in fact, graven images. As I have stated on the nativity thread, the scripture that's most applicable in this instance, to me at least, is not Exodus 20 but Acts 17. What the plastic and ceramic Jesus promoters need to come up with, is an argument that demonstrates why we, as the offspring of God, should think that the Godhead is like gold, silver, or stone graven by art and man's device. It's man's device that has created these works of art and just as the root of the nativity scenes are not through Christian men, neither are these dolls.

    "Forasmuch then as we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Godhead is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven by art and man's device." - Acts 17:29​
     
  13. Jim1999

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    Tim, the dolls are not my cup of tea, but they might just open some doors to your ministry. They can't be any different to the child evangelists that use puppets on "stage".

    Go with it, mate. Get every advantage you can take to minister the word.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. webdog

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    It's evident you don't know what a "graven image" is...especially if you feel a barbie doll is one. Here's a little help from www.freedictionary.com ...

    Noun1.[​IMG]graven image - a material effigy that is worshipped as a god; "thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"; "money was his god"
     
  15. PJ

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    I've never heard of a Jesus doll but as a witnessing tool, why not? Your efforts are appreciated, tinytim ...
     
    #15 PJ, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2006
  16. Rufus_1611

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    I can't say I'm familiar with freedictionary.com. Here's definitions from a dictionary I'm a bit more familiar with:


    ---
    GRAVE, v.t. pret. graved; pp. graven or graved. [Gr. to write; originally all writing was graving; Eng. to scrape.]

    1. To carve or cut letters or figures on stone or other hard substance, with a chisel or edged tool; to engrave. [The latter word is now more generally used.]

    Thou shalt take two onyx-stones and grave on them the names of the children of Israel. Ex.28.

    2. To carve; to form or shape by cutting with a chisel; as, to grave an image.

    Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image. Ex.20.

    (Source: Webster's 1828)

    IM'AGE, n. [L. imago.]

    1. A representation or similitude of any person or thing, formed of a material substance; as an image wrought out of stone, wood or wax.

    (Source: Webster's 1828)

    Thus, I would say that a graven image is a representation of a person or thing that has been carved or cut to form the shape of the desire image. Worshipping the image does not a graven image make by this definition and plastic Jesus dolls qualify as a graven image.
     
  17. webdog

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    If this be the case, then God commanded for man to make "graven images" to put on top of the Ark of the Covenant...a direct contradiction NOT to make graven images! Context rules!

    Isa 44:10 Who fashions a god, or molds a graven image, that is profitable for nothing?
     
    #17 webdog, Dec 15, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2006
  18. tinytim

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    So it all boils down to the definition of Graven Image.
    We believe the commandment has to do with worshipping the image.

    If it means what Rufus says it means, then we have to do away with all artwork, pictures, dolls, anything.. because the commandment was not just about God, but about his creation as well...

    And that just does not go along with other scriptures. like the serpent in the wilderness, or the cherubs on the Ark.

    But I have to say, Rufus... I like your consistancy... you certainly know what you believe in and are not afraid to stand for it... that is to be commended.
     
  19. Rufus_1611

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    No, no. The graven image thing is a side issue and a deeper discussion not wholly germain to Jesus dolls and Nativity scenes. The scripture that I'm standing on, relative ot this issue, is Acts 17:29. Make an argument for why we should think that the persons of the Godhead should be graven by art and man's device and I will take no issue with Jesus dolls and nativity Jesus babies

    That's good of you to say. Regardless of our differences, which are many, you have a very charitable spirit and I enjoy reasoning with you.
     
  20. James_Newman

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    Even if it is OK to have dolls, what makes anyone think it is OK to give impressionable children a doll representing God? If you can convince yourself that you don't worship the doll, thats great. But when you give the doll to a five year old and say 'this is Jesus, Jesus is God', what does that say to him? Given the obvious human propensity for worship of images, it is just a really bad idea alltogether. Baptists ought to know better.
     

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