Our people in Heaven

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by billwald, Apr 15, 2006.

  1. billwald

    billwald
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    Our people in Heaven, do they ever think about us? This is a more basic question than "saints praying . . . ."
     
  2. Claudia_T

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    I would say that NO they do not think about us... because they are not in heaven, they are asleep in the grave.


    By what figure does the Bible represent death?
    "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope." 1 Thess. 4:13 (1 Cor. 15:18, 20) (John 11:11-14).
    NOTE. - In sound sleep one is wholly lost to consciousness; time goes by unmeasured; and the functions of the mental organs are suspended for the time being.

    Where do the dead sleep?
    "And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake." Dan. 12:2.

    How long will they sleep there?
    "So man lieth down, and riseth not, till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep." Job. 14:12.

    What must take place before Job could expect to awake?
    "If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will wait, till my change come." Job 14:14.

    Where does he wait?
    "If I wait, the grave is mine house; I have made my bed in the darkness." Job 17:13.

    While in this condition, what does one know of those he has left behind?
    "His sons come to honor, and he knoweth it not; and they are brought low, but he perceiveth it not of them." Job 14:21.

    What becomes of man's thoughts at death?
    "His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish." Ps. 146:4.

    Do the dead know anything?
    "For the living know that they shall die; but the dead know not anything, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten." Eccl. 9:5.

    What part, if any, do they take in earthly things?
    "Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion forever in anything that is done under the sun." Ecc. 9:6.
    NOTE. - If one continued in consciousness after death, he would know of the promotion or dishonor of his sons. But Job says he does not know this, then if, as stated in the last text quoted, in death one loses all the attributes of his mind, as love, hatred, envy, etc., it is plain that his thoughts have perished, and that he can have nothing more to do with living objects. Again if man in death prolongs his powers of thought, he lives; and if he lives he must be somewhere. Where is he? Is he in heaven, or in hell? If in either place immediately after death, what is the necessity of a judgment in the end of the world to decide his case? Is there a possibility that some have at death gone to the wrong place, and must needs be sent to the other, after having been in bliss or torment for ages, perhaps?

    What does the psalmist say about the dead praising the Lord?
    "The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence." Ps. 115:17.

    How much does one know of God when dead?
    "For in death there is no remembrance of thee." Ps. 6:5.

    But are not the righteous dead in heaven?
    "For David is not ascended into the heavens." Acts 2:34.

    If the dead cannot praise God, what must take place to enable them to do so?
    "Thy dead men shall live, together with my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye that dwell in dust; for thy dew is as the dew of herbs, and the earth shall cast out the dead." Isa. 26:19.

    What was the only thing with which David would be satisfied?
    "As for me, I will behold Thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I awake, with Thy likeness." Ps. 17:15.

    If there should never be an awakening of the dead, what would be the result?
    "For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised; and if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain; ye are yet in your sins. Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished." 1 Cor. 15:16-18.

    When does the resurrection of the righteous take place?
    "For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God; and the dead in Christ shall rise first." 1 Thess. 4:16 (1 Cor. 15:23).
     
  3. BobRyan

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    In 1Thes 4 Paul calls the living saints who have died "the DEAD in Christ". IN THAT chapter he speaks of them as having "Fallen asleep" and states that their hope of heaven AND OUR hope of heaven is in the 2nd coming of Christ.

    Paul says "WE shall not PRECEDE THEM into heaven for THE DEAD IN CHRIST shall RISE FIRST"

    God's Word says "the living know they shall die - the dead know not ANYTHING".

    This is not a story about what "LIVING BODIES" know vs "Dead BODIES" -- it is a statement about LIVING PEOPLE - living BEINGS --

    Death is not "experienced" by the dead. They do not lie in death "waiting and waiting". For the one who dies - NO TIME passes - they simply find at death that they are "AT THE 2nd COMING".

    So "YES" they think about YOU - they GREET YOU and they never experience one MOMENT away from you! But YOU go through a great deal of sorrow missing THEM!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  4. BobRyan

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    God's plan is so wonderful in that regard! Think about it - parents that have lost children to death WILL pick up RIGHT where they left OFF! They will raise their precious child in sin-free suffering-free sorrow-less HEAVEN!
     
  5. Claudia_T

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    Also God's plan is wonderful because if we have loved ones who have died, we do not have to worry if they are suffering in hell right now. Plus if people were in heaven right now it wouldnt be much of a heaven if they had to witness the sorrow and suffering down here below.
     
  6. JFox1

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    Those who keep preaching the false doctrine of "soul sleep" in hopes that someone on this board will eventually believe it. I got into a heated discussion with a follower of Garner Ted Armstrong and a Seventh Day Adventist about this recently.

    When I die and depart from this body, I will go to Paradise and be with Christ, which is far better, contrary to the Scripture twisting by the Armstrongists and the Adventists. I don't have to wait in the grave until Judgment Day.

    Those who believe in soul sleep also believe in annihilationism, in which the unsaved will cease to exist instead of suffering in hell forever, if you think THAT is comforting.
     
  7. Claudia_T

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    I prefer to go by what the Bible says.
     
  8. Claudia_T

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    John 11 [​IMG]

    11: These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.
    12: Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well.
    13: Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
    14: Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.


    sorry but this is just what the Scriptures teach, not what you have had drilled into your head all the years you have been in church.
     
  9. JFox1

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    No, it's what the Seventh Day Adventist Church drilled into your head! Ellen G. White twisted the Scriptures to make them say what she wanted them to say.
     
  10. Claudia_T

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    [​IMG]

    Mt:9:24: He said unto them, Give place: for the maid is not dead, but sleepeth. And they laughed him to scorn.

    Mk:5:39: And when he was come in, he saith unto them, Why make ye this ado, and weep? the damsel is not dead, but sleepeth.

    Lk:8:52: And all wept, and bewailed her: but he said, Weep not; she is not dead, but sleepeth.
     
  11. Claudia_T

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    [​IMG]

    1Cor:11:30: For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

    1Cor:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

    1Cor:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


    1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    1Thes:4:13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    1Thes:4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1Thes:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    1Thes:5:10: Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    2Pt:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
     
  12. Claudia_T

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    actually I think the Bible drilled it into my head.
     
  13. Jarthur001

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    1st you may need to study on this one. Sleep is used because of the resemblance between them as sleep is the kinsman of death. This was used by many writers in that day.

    2nd it is used as a picture that death is not final for those that believe.

    3rd Jesus tells what He means in verse 14

    4th A great play on words is used in 13..."but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep"

    Notice THEY THOUGHT he (Jesus) was saying Lazarus was RESTING in sleep. This is when he follows with..NO...not rest in sleep...resting in death..for Lazarus is DEAD..yet he rest..as if he is asleep....for he trusted in me.

    Understanding greek and history helps in this passage.

    In Christ...James
     
  14. Jarthur001

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    Mt 9: 24 and others..
    Much to say on this one...but i'll keep it short now..and address it more later if you want. But for now..Christ uses the word her to show his deeper thinking. Her body is dead...but her soul is not.

    In Christ...James
     
  15. Jarthur001

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    It seems like you base everything on your 1st group of verses posted. For ALL of these simply means death...both you and I would agree with that. But you think death is really sleep...where I hold to that it means dead.

    Once you understand Greek dialogue of that timeā€¦it becomes very clear. Death is dead....not sleep

    In Christ..James
     
  16. music4Him

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    quote by billwald:
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    Our people in Heaven, do they ever think about us? This is a more basic question than "saints praying . . . ."
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    When Paul said one day is like a thousand years there...and to look at some of the discriptions of heaven that are written in the bible... if your kinfolk are anything like mine...they might be looking around for a day or 2 (1000 - 2000 years) before they miss us? [​IMG]


    Now as for the other topic in this thread.....
    One way or another when you wake up on resurection day or right after drawing your last breath the next thing you face is eternity.

    2Cor 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
     
  17. BobRyan

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    Thanks for sharing. That was pretty convincing.

    Here is the "bad Apostle Paul" using language you don't seem to approve of --

    Some people find it necessary to avoid the parts of that text highlighted in Bold.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
  18. BobRyan

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    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Claudia_T:


    1Cor:11:30: For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.

    1Cor:15:6: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

    1Cor:15:18: Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.


    1Cor:15:51: Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

    1Thes:4:13: But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

    1Thes:4:14: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.

    1Thes:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

    1Thes:5:10: Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.

    2Pt:3:4: And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It seems like you base everything on ignoring that set of texts posted.
     
  19. nate

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    I agree with you JFox1 as the Scriptures say "to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ."
    In Christ,
    Nate
     
  20. BobRyan

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    "to be absent from the body is to be present with Christ."


    Wouldn't it be great IF that actually was a quote from scripture!!??

    That is EXACTLY the wording that is needed for the kind of belief that many people here hold to ... how great it would have been IF the Bible actually SAID IT!!

    Kinda like -- "What if purgatory was mentioned in scripture" -- wouldn't that be great for the RCC - if that had actually been something mentioned in scripture.

    I have to hand it to you - that was a perfectly worded statement showing EXACTLY what you "need" to have found in scripture.

    Kinda of like "for mankind has an immortal soul" or "Man's immortal soul shall live for ever in hell fire" -- what another great thing to have been able to find in scripture IF one is going to believe in such a thing.

    Many thanks for being willing to admit that you "needed" to find such a text - worded exactly as you have stated it!

    In Christ,

    Bob
     

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