Out Of Zion Shall Go Forth The Law, And The Word Of The Lord From Jerusalem

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by beameup, Oct 20, 2013.

  1. beameup

    beameup
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    And many people [Gentiles] shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, [Zion, Jerusalem]
    to the house of the God of Jacob [Jacob=true Jews]; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths:
    for out of Zion shall go forth the Law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. Isaiah 2:3
     
  2. Iconoclast

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    This is being fulfilled now as the gospel goes worldwide...prayer goes up to the Heavenly Zion and Jerusalem the law goes forth from the heavenly throne through the church.
     
  3. beameup

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    And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house [Zion, Jerusalem, Israel]
    shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and
    all [Gentile] nations shall flow unto it [Zion, Jerusalem, Israel].
    Isaiah 2:2

    And he [Jesus] shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they [Gentiles]
    shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks:
    nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more
    . Isaiah 2:4

    Hasn't happened yet... :wavey:
     
    #3 beameup, Oct 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2013
  4. Iconoclast

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    Yes....we are in the last days since the cross....
     
  5. beameup

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    He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest:
    and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:
    [in Jerusalem, Israel]
    And he shall reign over the house of Jacob [genetic Israel] for ever;
    and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
    Luke 1:32-33

    Promises made by God to the virgin Mary... God cannot lie.
     
  6. asterisktom

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    :thumbs:

    Hebrews 1 "God ... has in these last days spoken in the Son."
     
  7. asterisktom

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    The fact that you use brackets is evidence in itself.--against your point.
     
    #7 asterisktom, Oct 23, 2013
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  8. Iconoclast

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    Q
    The fact that you use brackets is evidence in itself.--against your point.

    He never addresses Heb 1...or Heb 12...the Heavenly Jerusalem:thumbsup:
     
  9. Iconoclast

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    This verse is brushed over without much consideration in our day...but it speaks volumes...The Son being the full final revelation of the Father .:thumbsup:
     
  10. beameup

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    Isaiah 2:2-4 "speaks for itself".
    The "house of Jacob" is genetic Israel.

    So let it be written, so let it be done.
     
  11. Iconoclast

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    Well Paul did not think it spoke for itself ...so The Holy Spirit had Him tell us this.....

    6 Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:7 Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

    So...let your statement be corrected so let it be done!
     
  12. Luke2427

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    Yep. one could really cling to this dispensational, premil thing if it weren't for the Bible. The Bible just messes the whole thing up.
     
  13. beameup

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    So, are you saying that God was somehow "misleading" the Jews in the O.T.
    or that His "promises" are vacuous? This of course implys that God is a liar.

    BTW, the Gospel of Grace (for the GENTILES) is nowhere found in the O.T.,
    it was revealed to the Apostle Paul, the Apostle to the Gentiles (not "the 12").
    The 4 "gospels" present the Gospel of the Kingdom (Jesus as King of the Jews).
     
    #13 beameup, Oct 25, 2013
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  14. Luke2427

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    Missions is the heartbeat of God. It is the means whereby God accomplishes his eternal purposes in this world. God does not need the help of missionaries to achieve his ends, but he has chosen to graciously include those creatures made in his image in this divine endeavor. That purpose is clear: to fill the world with the image of God. When this purpose is accomplished, when the “knowledge of the Lord shall cover the earth as the waters the sea,” the world will be utopia. Paradise will be restored. Men will beat their swords into plowshares and peace will cover the Earth. Missions is the means whereby God will bring this noblest of all endeavors to pass.
    This task is not a New Testament phenomenon as many suppose. It is not only found in both testaments; it is the focus of both testaments. The first commission given to the first human being is the Great Commission. When Christians typically think of the Great Commission they think its origin is at the end of a couple of New Testament Gospels. However, a brief examination of the first recorded words God ever spoke to a man reveals that the Great Commission in the New Testament is only a fresh rendering of the commission given to Adam at the beginning of the Old Testament. Genesis 1:26-29 says:
    Then God said, “Let us make manh in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”
    So God created man in his own image,
    in the image of God he created him;
    male and female he created them.
    And God blessed them. And God said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply and fill the earth and subdue it and have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”

    God told Adam, his image bearer, to multiply and fill the earth with other image bearers until the whole earth was subdued and in the control of those who bear the image of God. That is the Great Commission. We are to go forth bearing God’s image restored to us by Christ who is the perfect image of God and into whose image we are daily being conformed. We are to multiply the ranks of those who bear that image until the whole earth is filled with the image of Christ and Christ reigns over the face of the whole earth. Matthew 28:19-20, what we typically think of when we speak of the Great Commission, says:
    And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.”

    Baptize the nations and teach them to obey Christ’s commands. That is just another way of saying, “Fill the Earth with the image of Christ and by that image subdue it.” Christ says that all the authority is his and so we should go and restore it to the earth by baptizing the nations. It was the image of God that reigned before the Fall. Since the Fall the Bible has been about restoring the rightful rule of that dethroned image.
    All this talk of rule, reign, authority and commands may sound a bit authoritarian which certainly does not seem congruent to the warm spirit of compassionate Christianity taught in the Bible. But what one needs to understand is that Heaven is heaven only because Jesus Christ reigns there. It is neither the streets of gold nor the mansions that make Heaven, heaven. It is the undisputed reign of Jesus Christ. And wherever his reign is enthusiastically embraced, there is a piece of heaven there as well. Under the roof of the family home where all its inhabitants welcome the reign of Christ can be a piece of heaven on earth. The same is true with a town filled with people who welcome the rule of Jesus Christ. A town that is taught to “observe whatsoever [Christ] has commanded” will be a piece of heaven. I say “piece” because there will still be hardships like sickness and catastrophes that visit that town. But the people who gladly bow to the reign of Christ will have a piece of heaven there. The same can be said for a nation. Nothing is more compassionate or warm than persuading all the people of the world to enthrone Jesus Christ as their ruler and making his ways and commands their own.
    One day the world will bow to the Lordship of Christ and the oldest of commissions given to man will be accomplished. The earth will be filled with people who are like Jesus (bear his image) and Paradise will be restored. Imagining a world where everybody from pole to pole is very much like Jesus is a thrilling prospect. Making that prospect a reality is the pith and morrow of missions. Bringing it to pass is the first commission ever given to man. It is Christ’s Great Commission given to his disciples before he ascended back to the Father. It is that commission that the Church has been seeking to fulfill for two thousand years, but the same that God’s people have been responsible for since the first human being was made.
    The Old Testament is rife with passages that affirm God’s desire to bring the nations of the earth to himself. One of those great passages is Isaiah 11. In the passage God promises to send the Messiah he calls the “root of Jesse.” This Messiah will bring peace upon the earth by the “rod of his mouth” such that the “lion will lay down with the lamb.” Verse 9 declares why there will be such peace, “for the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.” The knowledge of God will bring this to pass and that is precisely the whole point of the Gospel. It is the very heart of the Great Commission. The “rod of his mouth” is the Gospel. Jamieson Faucet and Brown say this refers to “condemning sentences which proceed from His mouth against the wicked (Re 1:16; 2:16; 19:15, 21).” And that is what the Gospel does. Jesus said in John 16:8 about the Holy Spirit who would come to empower the disciples to carry out this commission, “And when he comes, he will convict the world concerning sin and righteousness and judgment.” The Greek word for convict “elegchō” means: to convict, refute, confute
    1. generally with a suggestion of shame of the person convicted
    2. by conviction to bring to the light, to expose
    This is how Luke describes Paul’s Gospel work applied to Felix. Luke says in Acts 24:24-25
    After some days Felix came with his wife Drusilla, who was Jewish, and he sent for Paul and heard him speak about faith in Christ Jesus. And as he reasoned about righteousness and self-control and the coming judgment, Felix was alarmed and said, “Go away for the present. When I get an opportunity I will summon you.”
    Note that what Paul is speaking about is “the faith of Christ” i. e., the Gospel. Putting Isaiah 11, John 14 and Acts 24 together, one can see that the way in which Christ will bring peace on the earth is through the proclamation of the Gospel which, among other things, convicts the world of sin. The Gospel is the “rod of his mouth.” Of course, the Gospel does other things very different from convicting sinners as well like comforting the penitent and reconciling the world to God. But the point here is that Isaiah 11 is speaking of the Gospel work of ushering in peace on earth through Holy Spirit empowered missions exemplified in the ministry of the Apostles.
     
  15. Iconoclast

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    beameup

    No...we are saying let the bible define how God has chosen to fulfill His promises.....the quote from romans 9...uses two different words..

    Sperma.....natural descendants
    teknon....spiritual descendants
    The Bible says it is the teknon....{jew or gentile} who receive the promise.

    Not at all; The false teaching of dispensationalism robs you of this truth and reality.We were taught what you say also....but now see it more biblically than that system puts forth.

    23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

    24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?25 As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.

    26 And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.

    27 Esaias also crieth concerning Israel, Though the number of the children of Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved:28 For he will finish the work, and cut it short in righteousness: because a short work will the Lord make upon the earth.

    29 And as Esaias said before, Except the Lord of Sabaoth had left us a seed, we had been as Sodoma, and been made like unto Gomorrha.

    30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.



    Really.....are you sure?
    8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord


    6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

    7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

    8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.


    I see it here and in many other places...if you know where to look for it.



    Jesus is King of Kings,Lord of All.:thumbs::thumbs:
     
  16. beameup

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    And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an
    hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

    Judah: 12,000
    Ruben: 12,000
    Gad: 12,000
    Asher: 12,000
    Nepthalim: 12,000
    Manassas: 12,000
    Simeon: 12,000
    Levi: 12,000
    Issachar: 12,000
    Zabulon: 12,000
    Joseph: 12,000
    Benjamin: 12,000
    Revelation 7:4-8

    The fruit of their "missionary" work:
    After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues,
    stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands.
    Rev 7:9

    And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
    And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation.
    Rev 7:13-14a

    This is the "main harvest" by genetic Israelites during the first 3 1/2 years of the 70th Week of Daniel (first half of Tribulation).
     
  17. Luke2427

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    And?

    We've already refuted this nonsense. Posting more of it and claiming that a verse is saying it when it is not is not going to change that.
     
  18. beameup

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    I was raised to understand that these 144,000 were Jehovah's Witness elders.
    It's hard to refute the facts of the verse; there is just no way to get around the fact that these are genetic Israelites.
    Rev 7:4-8

    But, it's hard to be "flexible" when confronted with facts... isn't it? :wavey:
    Romans 3:4
     
  19. HankD

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    So?

    The Last days are still upon us and have been for the last 2000 years.

    When sin and death are removed from the material universe then the last "days" under the sun will be over and we will enter into the eternal age in the New Jerusalem.

    HankD
     
  20. Iconoclast

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    Nothing in the text indicates that this is not part of the tribulation leading up to 70 ad.....God had kept an elect remnant of Jews as paul explains in romans

    also notice they were marked in the forehead...this same group is identified in rev 14:1-4 as the firstfruits.....not final fruits....
    this is the elect remnant of jews who along with believing gentiles form the church....compare the "mark" with the mark of the elect in EZK 9
    4 And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof
     

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