Pagan Belief

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Van, Nov 25, 2011.

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  1. Van

    Van
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    Belief in an existent future is a pagan belief, not a biblical belief. Support for the idea that God has chosen to be in deterministic control of everything is based on the belief of an existent future existing on the other side of the veil of time.

    Starting near the beginning, lets turn to Plato. He lived about 80 years, from about 428 BC to about 348 BC. In Plato's Phaedrus Dialogue, Plato using the voice of Socrates presents his pagan view of the Divine Knowledge of the gods.

    First, only knowledge of the truth matters, writers who express knowledge of the truth matter, but they cannot be called wise, that name belongs only to the gods. Men, on the other hand, may be called lovers of wisdom, or philosophers (lovers of knowledge.)

    In Plato's Timaeus Dialogue, Plato using the voice of Socrates presents the idea that the behavior of the physical can be observed by man, but only God has the knowledge and power to cause behavior. Man's knowledge is superficial; God's knowledge is exhaustive.

    In Plato's Parmedides Dialogue, Plato presents his idea of an existent future, rather than just a conception of the mind. Plato asserts that "ideas" exist apart from individuals, and our ideas (the concepts of our minds) simply resemble the "existent ideas." Only God possesses absolute knowledge of the "existent ideas".

    In Book X of the Laws, God must know even the small and insignificant stuff concerning individuals or else God would be negligent, due to inactivity or carelessness. The biblical idea that God could choose not to acquire or remember information concerning existent human beings escapes Plato's grasp of absolute truth.

    Plato laid the foundation of the concept of an existent future of which God possesses exhaustive knowledge. Rather than the future being simply a concept of the mind, Plato moves the concepts of the mind into a fictional metaphysical world known only by God. Therefore the belief of an existent future was born of Greek Philosophy and not the inspired word of God.

    Aristotle continued the development of the concept of God's exhaustive knowledge of the existent future. Aristotle studied under Plato and lived from about 384 BC to 322 BC.

    In Metaphysics Book 1, Aristotle endorsed the idea that only God possess knowledge of metaphysics, the world beyond the physical, because it is beyond the grasp of humans. In discussing the nature of the Divine, Book XII, Chapter 9, Aristotle accepts the view that God is infinite and the first cause of all the finite. God creates the seed maker, and then the seed maker creates the seed.

    Also in Book XII, Chapter 10, Aristotle challenges the correct view that the future comes into being as time moves from the past to the present, by saying, "What is the cause of becoming - no one tells us." As a proof of the existence of God, the first cause, his observation is valid, but as a proof for an existent future created by God before the beginning of time, invalid.

    In summary, Pagan Greek Philosophers established the idea of a metaphysical world existing outside the mind of men, and that this fictional construct of uninspired men was created by God, and that only God knows the metaphysical world exhaustively. On the other hand, scripture teaches that God brings the future into being; He makes it happen. He alters the future by intervening, by hardening hearts to cause the Gospel to be spread to the Gentiles. If we repent, He relents. If we are persistent in prayer, God gives us more of the Holy Spirit.

    The doctrine of Total Omniscience is pure paganism, inherent omniscience is pure revelation.
     
  2. jbh28

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    You may want to delete this before the word "banned" gets put under your name. You have just called everybody on this board a pagan.
     
  3. Ruiz

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    The idea of omniscience is an established doctrine of the Christian church and not pagan. Rather, it is clear that rejection of God's omniscience is heretical.

    Here is an essay defending God's omniscience.
     
  4. Van

    Van
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    Should we not compare what men say to God's word? I will remember no more forever ring a bell.

    Omniscience, as defined by inherent omniscience is biblical, total omniscience is pagan philosophy dressed up as Christian doctrine.
     
  5. Ruiz

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    Yes you said that before. However, because philosophers expound on an issue and are partially correct, does not mean it is a pagan viewpiont. This fallacy is called a genetic fallacy. There were many issues that Plato, Aristotle, and Socrates expounded correctly on, and many they did not. The question is not the origins, but the Bible. This is why I quoted the specific article.

    To say God, who created all things including time, is bound by time in knowledge is heretical. It says the creator is subject to his creation.
     
  6. preacher4truth

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    You further prove you're in error and teach false doctrine. This is an attack on the nature and person of God as revealed in the Scriptures.

    Dr. Bob has already shut down a thread where you were involved stating it was an attack on the Word of God.

    Nothing you teach is Baptistic, nor is it Biblical.

    jhb28 has the correct answer.
     
  7. Van

    Van
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    Notice how the Calvinists seek to derail the thread, shifting it to a discussion of my behavior rather than the truth. Inherant Omniscience is fully consistent with the Word of God, whereas total omniscience is fully inconsistent and therefore attacks the word of God saying God does not mean what He says, He says He remembers no more but really remembers, He says now I know, but really already knew, and Jesus says he does not know the time of His return but He really did know.

    I am presenting the Word of God, not neo-Platonism.
     
  8. DHK

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    Perhaps your reading of philosophy has affected your theology. I haven't read that deeply into philosophy as you have. But I have read the Bible in a fair amount of depth, and I know that the Bible teaches the total omniscience of God. That is factual. In fact if God was not totally omniscient, then God would not be God; could not be God, and would thus be something conceived out of paganism. You need to rethink your theology.

    Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them. (Jeremiah 10:2)
    For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe. (Jeremiah 10:3)
    Forasmuch as there is none like unto thee, O LORD; thou art great, and thy name is great in might. (Jeremiah 10:6)
     
  9. mandym

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    Oh stop it. I'm not Calvinist and I believe you are in complete heresy.
     
  10. Frogman

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    The beauty of Scriptural Christianity is that there is no belief that God is or has chosen to be in 'deterministic control of everything" this idea teaches that God is the first cause of everything and that includes that he is the author of sin.

    This is not a Christian Scriptural belief nor can it be supported by Scripture.

    bro. Dallas

    Rightly Dividing the word of God by laying off straight furrows because although more can be planted in a crooked furrow, the land cannot be worked without damage or destruction to the plant thereby hindering the harvest.

    A hand to the plough in Kentucky.
     
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