Panhandlers

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Joseph_Botwinick, Sep 1, 2003.

  1. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Should panhandling be legal? I heard on a show today that there are panhandlers out there who make $750 to $900 A WEEK . And what's more, it is tax free. These people are makeing more in one week than most people do in 2 weeks. They are making twice the amount than I do every month and all tax free. Isn't this sorta, say, unjust?

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  2. Karen

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    I wouldn't call it tax-free. I would think they would legally have to declare it as income on a Schedule C and pay self-employment income on it.
    Or at the very least as miscellaneous income.

    Karen
     
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    Karen,

    Do you really think most panhandlers really claim all that cash they get on their taxes? Even if the IRS did audit them, I think it would probably be impossible to trace how much money they really make since:

    A: It is all cash money

    B: They probably blow most of it on alchohol, cigarretes, and drugs.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  4. Gina B

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    Hmmm. I might have to try that! :eek:
    If people are naive enough to hand over cash then so be it. There are just as many legit businesses ripping customers off and skimming off the top I'd think that would be more of a concern than people getting money willingly handed to them.
    Gina
     
  5. Justified

    Justified
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    I think that I need to change jobs!!!!

    :eek:
     
  6. gb93433

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    There was a lady in Memphis when I lived there that made 500 dollars a day. The news folowed her around for awhile.
     
  7. ScottEmerson

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    If someone needs food, I tend to give it to them. If they are thirst, I try to get them water. If they are stranded on the side of the road, I try to help. If they say they are in need of money, I give what I have.

    What they do with it is between them and God - all I am required to do is to feed the hungry and reach out to the hurting. If a homeless person decides to take the ten dollars I give him and buy some alcohol to make it through a cold night, then he is making his own free choice to do so. If I were in his shoes, I may decide to do the same thing.

    Are some the equivalent of theives? Probably. Does God require of me to always ask them before I give them something and share the gospel? Nope.
     
  8. Karen

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    No, [​IMG] , they don't. My point was what is legal. Your first post could have been read to imply that they had found a tax loophole.

    Karen
     
  9. Justified

    Justified
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    At the same time, we are to be good stewarts of what God has given us.

    We are to use the whole of Scriptures, and Scripture also says that if a man doesn't work, he doesn't eat.

    I have found that when I offer to help these people, ALL of them refused to work in any aspect.

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Bartimaeus

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    What a wonderful land that we live in. You don't have the right to be unmolested in your pursuit of happiness (being a bum that is) in many countries around the world. If the IRS had their way bums would not be tax free either. I think it is great and I never gave before but I think I'll throw a couple sheckles in the boot the next time I see one and tell him to make sure he doesn't claim it. If he would take the time to listen I'd tell him how free he really is being UNMOLESTED by the Agency without a boss. Those of you who are only driven by jealousy because you are paying remind me of the verse that says, "We have no king but Ceasar"!

    Thanks -------Bart
    "We have no King but Jesus"
     
  11. Gib

    Gib
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    Our church is right of the main road. Weekly visitors stop by for help. Many come to the services and then ask. We try to fulfill the needs of each and everyone. We have a food and clothing closet that we utilize.

    We have a man who had frequently come for help. He is a known alcoholic and unemployed. We had given him cash on several occassions only to find out he spent the food on booze and cigarettes. The need for food was real. His family is hungry.

    He came in again and we asked him if we could take him to the grocery store. He declined, demanding money. We've tried to witness and support the family, but the father does not want our help.

    I feel differently about just giving money to a person. If I give them money and they buy drugs or other, am I not supporting their habbit. If they come in, they have a need. Take care of the need.
     
  12. Pete Richert

    Pete Richert
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    Yea, this one is really tough. Certainly there are many out there who really have need . . . even if it is their own fault. Jesus didn't just give a few bucks, he gave his own life for me and IT WAS MY OWN FAULT!!! BIG TIME!!!

    I am kind of with Scott that sometimes I just give money and hopefully the gospel. What the spend it on is between them and God. I would give money too ten people if I thought one used it for good. IT WOULDN'T BE WORTH MISSING THAT ONE just to thrawt the other 9.

    But even better, I would hope the local church could run a strong ministry of seeking this people out, spending time with them, finding out their true needs, and bringing them to the Lord. Then we would know which ones are in need and which are scam artists, or just simply on drugs and unwilling to change. Also, they could provide food and shelter instead of money.

    When I was in Berkeley I had the best opportunity because then I was actually there to find them (instead of seeing them on the corner while I am driving somewhere) and they are everywhere in Berkeley. I would take them to McDonands to get something to eat (so no money had to change hands but if they were really hungry they could eat) and then I could share the gospel over lunch/dinner/breakfast instead of just a few words. Most were glad for the offer and most listened to the gospel (though I had no converstions on the spot).

    I don't think most are like that woman who pulled 500 a day. Most are poor and just getting by (whether it is their own fault or not, that is not the point). And a GREAT many of them are mentally ill. This was definetly the case at berkely, at least 75% of the ones I talked to. My dad told me there was a huge shift (I think in the seventies) about how we handled the mentally ill. We used to lock them up in homes, and people protested because they were horrible places, with bad conditions, and the people who were only sort of crazy were driven crazy by the really crazy. But then we let them out and two things happened 1) their relatives, if they had any, were usually quite unwilling to take care of their needs completly (nor could some of them) and 2) they were unable to take care of themselves. In the end, they were homeless.

    There was a ministry at my undergrad that went to downtown Chicago and ministered to the homeless. They can testify that there were some hard lucks, some on drugs, a lot of mentally ill, and quite a few who were admittingly lazy. My father in law ran a beach mission for nearly ten years where he ministered to the same demographic, and there were many in many different catagories as well (he probably knows more about homeless people then anyone on earth so perhaps I can get him to get on this board, but don't hold your breath). And my experience was mostly with the mentally ill though Berkeley (being the liberal capital of the planet) had quite a few younger guys who were proud that they were doing marajana research.

    In conclusion, there is no blanket statement that can account for all homeless people.
     
  13. timothy 1769

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    give, even if you're being ripped off 99% of the time it's worth it for the 1%.
     
  14. Carolyn Dee

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    My first thought echoes the prevailing sentiment of this thread: give and witness. Jesus fed the crowds first before preaching. If the crowds wanted only their immediate needs met (food) and did not want their spiritual stomach filled, then it becomes a matter between them and God.

    I know of a Christian food kitchen where many homeless chemically-addicted / streetwalkers come for the food but the call for salvation after the preaching is largely ignored. Not everyone will hear. [​IMG]
     
  15. Gib

    Gib
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    If you meet their need, whether you give food, shelter or services, you're going to be closer to the 99% of the time. [​IMG]
     
  16. Sherrie

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    Most of the time it is not about the person receiving the money, or whatever the gift is of charity, but it is about the giver.

    But not everyone is a giver. I truly believe to be able to give, is a gift from God. A lot of people will write out there checks every week to the church, or to an organization, but a real giver will give no matter the circumstances. There is great joy in giving. Not everyone experiences those feelings.

    Sherrie
     
  17. Johnv

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    It's not tax free. They're supposed to (but don't) declare it as income.

    My rule is, I simply don't give to panhandlers. If they need food, I'll be happy to buy them food, or drive them to the local food kitchen, which is just a mile away from me. In all the years I've offerred to do both, I've had one person take up my food offer.
     
  18. Justified

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    That's exactly it! They, for the "MOST" part, are "PROFESSIOAL MOOCHES".

    You teach them how to provide for themselves and they will feed themselves for the rest of their life.

    You give them hand-outs, and they will be beggers for the rest of their life!

    [​IMG]
     
  19. mozier

    mozier
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    As a former homeless man, I feel that I am well-qualified to say what I am about to say on this forum.

    Yes, yes, yes, I know, I know. Mr. Mozier, Mr. Right-Wing Conservative Republican, a former homeless man??? :eek:

    Yes, I was. After leaving the seminary, I slid horribly and ended up living homeless on the streets until I cleaned up, reconciled with my parents, and got work.

    All right, with that said, I will say the following.

    When I was homeless (in Vancouver, Canada), there were plenty of avenues for us to get food, clothing, and shelter. There was no such thing as starving on the streets.

    For breakfast, there was huge cinnamon rolls and coffee from the nuns at this one place near St. James Anglican Church. For lunch, there were various charities, where generous sandwiches, chips, and sodas were given. And for supper, the Salvation Army had a pretty good spread, with soups, roast beef, mashed potatoes with gravy, and chocolate cake for dessert.

    All of it free. You didn't even have to do token work for any of it.

    Shelters were crowded, but warm. And clothing? Many charities have adequate clothing, including some really good bargains. That is why it is trendy to shop at Goodwill these days.

    And finally, many homeless people got checks from the government, only to fritter them away on alcohol and drugs.

    So what am I saying?

    The homeless are cons. Yes, some are mentally ill, cannot help their situation, etc. etc. etc.

    Whatever.

    Most, however, are lazy bums who play cons on people in order to get money to pay for booze and drugs. If you REALLY want to help them, then do NOT give them money. Point them out to the nearest charity or church, and let those who can help them do what they do.

    And finally, I do have one thing to say. Anyone who is capable of asking for change is also capable of saying, "Welcome to McDonald's. May I take your order?"


    Speaking from experience,

    mozier
     
  20. Justified

    Justified
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    Thank You! [​IMG]

    As in my very young child hood in the Chicago area, I found that the more people gave me, the more I mooched for hand outs. Thus never having a desire to better my self.

    It wasn't until they said "NO". that I had to go get a real job!

    :cool:
     

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