Parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by saturneptune, Jan 30, 2014.

  1. saturneptune

    saturneptune
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    Archie brought up a good point yesterday in the thread about the location of heaven and hell. It is one of the great parables of the Bible and teaches many lessons. How many of you think this is a story that really happened? Also, in the parable, there is a gap, between Paradise and Hades that cannot be crossed. This is one of the great principles that goes along with Hebrews 9:27, it is appointed for man once to die, then the judgment. Is the gap a real place, or does it just represent the fact that after death, there are no second chances, no parole, no hope without Jesus Christ as one's Savior at the point of death.

    Of course, in this parable, this is the gap between the two temporary abodes. In eternity, Hades turns into the Lake of Fire and Paradise is heaven. No doubt the gap is just as fixed. Sometimes I think when we think about how terrible hell is, we focus too much on the fire, brimstone, darkness, and other miserable conditions. While these are very real, the real tragedy of hell and the Lake of Fire is a place without any love, fellowship, or hope of the Lord.
     
  2. exscentric

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    Robertson in his harmony places the next chronological item after the account of Laz. as the raising of Laz. :) Imagine people hearing his account of sheol etc. one day then the next thing they hear/see is the literal raising of Laz.
     
  3. thisnumbersdisconnected

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    Parables never actually used the personal name of a person, or his/her national identity. It also didn't use the phrase "a certain man." This story recounted by Jesus uses both. Therefore, this is a true story.
    Excellent question! Though I struggled with this for some time after the first occasion I read it, I've come to the conclusion over the years that He actually allowed a veil of sorts to be opened up between heaven and hell so the conversation between Abraham and the "certain rich man" could take place. I'm sure it quickly closed again, because how could those in heaven be expected to enjoy the praise and worship of God if they could see and hear the suffering of those in hell?
    You no doubt noticed I called "Paradise" and "Hades" heaven and hell here. That's because there is no evidence to suggest there are "temporary abodes" for either sinner or saint once they've passed from this mortal coil. In fact, Jewish tradition is that Paradise is heaven. Hades is an exact depiction of the fire-and-brimstone existence of those condemned to suffer for eternity. Another indication of this is that Hades does not "turn into" the Lake of Fire, it is actually, physically cast into the Lake of Fire.
    Too true. :thumbsup:
     
  4. convicted1

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    Lazarus was a type of those resting in West Virginia and the rich man in Kentucky...;)

    In all seriousness, I take this account as an actual occurance...
     
  5. JohnDeereFan

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    It isn't a parable. It's a description of a real, literal event.
     
  6. JohnDeereFan

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    [Post removed - warning issued and reminder to all to try to stay on topic and off attacks on other brothers and sisters]
     
    #6 JohnDeereFan, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2014
  7. JohnDeereFan

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    Thank you for that.
     
  8. agedman

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    What is this???????

    Someone teaching the "gap theory?" :tongue3:

    The important part of the story is not what happened to either character, but what Christ said about the unbelief of the kin.

    That they wouldn't believe even if one raised from the dead.

    Is that not prophetic as to the condition of the typical human?

    Such not only deny the resurrection, but work all manner of deceit to discount the credible eye witness testimony, too.
     
  9. Archie the Preacher

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    Oh, yes...

    Very good point.

    Consider this was told by Jesus just a very short time - just a couple weeks at most - prior to Jesus' Crucifixion. On the third day following, Jesus rose from death and the Pharisees (who were part of the audience of the parable) STILL DIDN'T BELIEVE!
     
  10. JohnDeereFan

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    That's why this passage was actually one of the Bible verses God used to get me out of the WoF movement.
     
  11. Jordan Kurecki

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    It's not a parable.

    if it was there would be no reason for using the name Lazarus.

    Seriously doesn't it ever cross your mind that in every parable Jesus never used names? this is a true story.
     
  12. convicted1

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  13. quantumfaith

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  14. agedman

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    I agree quantumfaith.

    Just because it uses a name does not remove it from being a parable or not.

    Those posting "It's not a parable" have no more right to declare it not a parable, than the prodigal son.

    By definition ALL stories presented by the Lord Jesus Christ ARE parables. They are simple stories, in the use by the Lord Jesus Christ they are ALL true stories, that present an illustration of a truth.

    Parables are separated from fable ONLY in the matter that ALL parables involve humankind - not animals or plants.

    When a preacher tells a story as an illustration of a spiritual truth, they are using a parable.

    But frankly, it really doesn't matter.
     
    #14 agedman, Jan 30, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2014
  15. OldRegular

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    I believe the story is a parable, the gap is not real. The rich man was in hell and the beggar in Heaven. There is no communication between heaven and hell. Furthermore, who in heaven would want to go to hell? {Verse16:26} The purpose of the parable is to show the Jews that they will not believe that Jesus is the promised Messiah even if He is resurrected.

    Luke 16:26-31
    26. And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.
    27. Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father’s house:
    28. For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.
    29. Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
    30. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
    31. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
     
  16. The Archangel

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    Since we've taken up re-flagellating the deceased equine....

    Whenever Luke introduces a parable of Jesus, he uses the phrase "A certain man," which is exactly what the Greek here says.

    Also, the "story" wasn't original to Jesus. A very similar story is told in Jewish folklore about a man named Bar Ma‘jan. The folk tale is Egyptian in origin. Jesus makes certain, important, changes in the story--like giving Lazarus a name and denying the rich man a name (the rich man in the Egyptian tale was named Bar Ma‘jan). It's likely that the folk tale had "evolved" a bit from it's original Egyptian roots and had become more Jewish sounding.

    But, it is a parable.

    The Archangel
     
  17. go2church

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    I think it is a parable
     
  18. Revmitchell

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    It is referred to by Jesus, in some ancient manuscripts, as a parable.
     
  19. The Archangel

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    I should mention....

    If we are seeking to be expositors of God's Word, we should be making Jesus' main point (in the passage) our main point as well.

    Jesus' intention isn't to teach a fully-developed doctrine of hell or a fully-developed doctrine of "paradise" before heaven. His point is to confront the Pharisees' prejudices, as is often the case.

    So, in some sense, it doesn't matter whether it is a parable or a true story. But, all textual signs point to it being a parable.

    But, because it is a parable the details can't really be pressed too far without doing violence to the text an Jesus' intent in sharing the parable.

    The Archangel
     
  20. Winman

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    Baloney, it is not teaching inability, but Jesus was saying they have Moses and the prophets, which is the word of God. If you do not believe the word of God, then you will not believe any other evidence, including a person rising from the dead.

    The word of God is all man needs to believe. God has given us his word, and he expects us to believe it. We are not to seek signs and wonders.

    Jesus did not say the brothers are unable to believe, you are inserting your presuppositions into scripture.
     

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