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Passover

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by robycop3, Sep 15, 2004.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    As this arguement has run ad nauseum and is approaching page 5 - advance notice is given that it will be closed no earlier that 3.30 PM CDT today.

    Roger
    C4K
    Moderator
     
  2. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Second...Exodus 12 tells us both WHY God gave the Passover to Israel, AND what its ordinances are.
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    Yes, indeed He does. So why are you ignoring this?


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    Jesus became OUR passover AFTER the paschal lambs were eaten & their remains burned, but ON THE SAME DAY. And, neither then, nor later, did He cancel the Passover command for Israel. Remember, the PHYSICAL Passover is a MEMORIAL for Israel forever. And not only is Jesus OUR paschal lamb, but He replaced ALL animal sacrifices to God, FULFILLING FOREVER all the laws of sacrifices.(Even though they're still on the "books".) By His PHYSICAL sacrifice and resurrection, He became our SPIRITUAL sacrifice. (None of the animals sacrificed were resurrected, of course!)
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    The above in bold is inaccurate. Jesus Christ is not only our Passover lamb, but the Jews Passover Lamb also, in fact He is much more their Passover lamb, since this was concerning them and their own feasts. The gentiles only came into the fold at a later time, and we inherit the promises of Israel, by God's grace and the faith of Abraham. Jesus came first, for his own chosen people. They rejected him.


    Jesus Christ is also their Passover Lamb. They were in fact the ones that chose him, and sacrificed him unto the Lord (unbeknownst to them), the whole congregation, as the scriptures declare - crucify him, crucify him!. This was fulfilled during that time on the Passover, just as God ordained this. He would have been crucified at the same time the lambs for the Passover feast would have been sacrificed. You are asking me to believe there were two separate Passover's.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  3. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    And Jesus instituted Communion for all Christians, Jew & Gentile alike. This does NOT replace Israel's Passover, but is an additional observance. The Passover is for Israel; Communion is for all Christians.

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    I hate to burst your big bubble that you have encompassed around Judaism, but they are the enemies of the gospel, and are quite anti-christ. They are beloved for the bretheren's sake, and they are God's chosen people, however, they are disobediant, and in unbelief. Many who die, without believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, will go to hell. This is the gospel truth. Romans 10 and 11.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  4. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Is there any hint of TWO Passovers?(You recently said you never said there were two Passovers, but apparently you've changed your mind) Is there any mention of Easter?
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    NO there isn't, but you are trying to make me believe therre is two passover feasts. Yes, Easter is indicated as Jesus rose on the third day - the resurrection. Jesus fulfilled the feast, that the Jews observed literally. He fulfilled them, not only literally, but spiritually also. There were not TWO passover feasts. Only one, to which Jesus fulfilled literally.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:I don't really give a hoot, what the Jews "consider". I look to the scriptures for my understanding and final authority.

    So YOU know more about Passover than those to whom it was given? Methinks you attempt to hide behind the Scriptures because you're actually clueless about Passover and other things.

    The Scriptures tell us that the whole period of unleavened bread, including the special paschal meal is called PASSOVER by GOD HIMSELF. yet, you say, "Oh, it was just in one little verse!" Again, I ask..."How many times does GOD hafta say something before it becomes "official"? How many times did He say, "You shall not STEAL"? Is THAT "official" or not?

    You "take" the Scriptures exactly as written in the KJV...LONG AS IT DUITS YOUR PURPOSE. For example, you've vigorously(but vainly) defended "Easter" in Acts 12:4, but dismiss Ezekiel 45:21, which is a quote of GOD'S words to Ezekiel. There's a word for such "selective belief", but I'm not gonna use it here, because your actions are plain to every reader. No wonder your credibility is ZERO.
     
  6. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    IN FACT, IN MATTHEW 26:17, WHICH YOU POSTED, HE CALLS IT THE FIRST DAY OF THE FEAST OF UNLEAVENED BREAD! Time and again the Scriptures speak of passover and the feast of unleavened bread interchangeably.

    You say this is based ONLY upon one Scripture, Ezekiel 45:21? Well just HOW MANY TIMES must GOD repeat something before it becomes "official"? Plainly, the Jews during and after that time obeyed God's words from 'way back then, as they do NOW
    --------------------------------------------------


    Robycop, you must rightly divide the word of truth, in order to understand. It seems to me, that you are not doing this. You seem to be confusing yourself against plain scriptural truth, with outside sources and a foriegn language and interpretations of others of it, that are contrary to plain scriptural truth. And you are going to all these lengths to prove the word Easter is wrong. Easter is not wrong, and the scriptures alone prove this.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  7. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    This will never end and I believe I can tell you why.

    The radical KJVO believe that the canon of scripture was closed in 1611 with the English language of that period and not 90AD and the koine Greek of that period.

    That is why “Passover” in the gospel of Luke becomes “Easter” in Acts.
    This is one of the 200 or so “advanced revelations” in the 1611 KJV.

    Until the English language came into existence Acts 12:4 was “pascha-passover” even in the Vulgate.

    In 1611 God “re-inspired” the Scriptures in 1611 English (or the KJV translators made a mistake) and “slammed the door shut” on the canon of Scripture.

    Or so we are told. Yes those KJVO here will deny that they are this kind of KJVO (and even perhaps that they are KJVO) yet they defend what the radical KJVO defend they just don’t call it “advanced revelation”.

    The day is far spent in this issue and we are all wasting our time and falling prey to a trap in which ad hominems, insults and innuendi are exchanged playing into the hands of the evil one.

    James 3
    14 But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth.
    15 This wisdom descendeth not from above, but [is] earthly, sensual, devilish.
    16 For where envying and strife [is], there [is] confusion and every evil work.

    Someone said "use whatever version you wish".
    That is the best answer.

    If anyone wants to "defend" something other than the version I (or you) use, great, have at it.

    IMO, The fruit of these dicussions prove from whence they come.

    HankD
     
  8. russell55

    russell55 New Member

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    Except I don't think we see the whole fruit of the discussions. For every person who post here, there are many more who just read, and if any of them are prevented from falling into the trap of the radical sort of KJVOism that we see displayed in discussions like these, then that fruit is a good one.

    That doesn't mean I think it's okay to get nasty in doing it. It isn't. But standing against something that spawns some of the grossly unorthodox ideas I've read here of late is a good thing, and I'm glad for those who so faithfully do it.

    Are they going to change any of the regular participator's minds? Probably not, and hopefully, that's not the goal, because if it is, then the sort of frustration that leads to the nastiness that can often be witnessed here is certain.
     
  9. Pastor_Bob

    Pastor_Bob Well-Known Member

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    Ps 143:9 Deliver me, O LORD, from mine enemies: I flee unto thee to hide me. (KJV)

    Heb 6:18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: (KJV)

    What better place is there in which to hide than the Word of God? Would you rather michelle hide in human understanding or the tradition of men?

    Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. (KJV)
     
  10. Thankful

    Thankful <img src=/BettyE.gif>

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    Amen, Russell55

    A very good point. Many people read and do not post!
     
  11. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:I have given you abundant scriptural support for Passover and what Passover is, and what days of unleavened bread is, and the scriptures themselves prove that they are not the same thing. I believe God, rather than your opinions. Easter, is in fact not wrong, nor in error.

    Ezekiel 45:21, KJV..."In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten."

    Is this GOD'S WORDS to Ezekiel or not? Read verse 18 to see.

    Again, you SELECTIVELY believe your KJV. You really don't know what you're talking about.
     
  12. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    --------------------------------------------------
    If anyone wants to "defend" something other than the version I (or you) use, great, have at it.

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    --------------------------------------------------
    Or so we are told. Yes those KJVO here will deny that they are this kind of KJVO (and even perhaps that they are KJVO) yet they defend what the radical KJVO defend they just don’t call it “advanced revelation”.

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    Hank, I wasn't talking about anything other than the Passover and how Easter is correct against the false accusation that it is wrong. I have not brought up anything about other versions in this discussion.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  13. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Ezekiel 45:21, KJV..."In the first month, in the fourteenth day of the month, ye shall have the passover, a feast of seven days; unleavened bread shall be eaten."


    Now compare with the other scriptures and also keep in mind what Passover is, and what days of unleavened bread are.


    love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  14. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:The above in bold is inaccurate. Jesus Christ is not only our Passover lamb, but the Jews Passover Lamb also, in fact He is much more their Passover lamb, since this was concerning them and their own feasts. The gentiles only came into the fold at a later time, and we inherit the promises of Israel, by God's grace and the faith of Abraham. Jesus came first, for his own chosen people. They rejected him.

    Wrong, as usual. Jesus is the CHRISTIANS' Passover Lamb. The Jews still observe Passover in as traditional a way as possible. God did NOT cancel His command to Israel, and the Jews are the ONLY part of Israel to have retained their identity. Please search the Scriptures and tell us from them where God canceled His Passover command to Israel. When He said "forever" in Exodus, He MEANT it!(As He means EVERYTHING He has ever said!)
     
  15. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
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    Michelle:I hate to burst your big bubble that you have encompassed around Judaism, but they are the enemies of the gospel, and are quite anti-christ. They are beloved for the bretheren's sake, and they are God's chosen people, however, they are disobediant, and in unbelief. Many who die, without believing in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour, will go to hell. This is the gospel truth. Romans 10 and 11.

    While you're right (for once) about the Jews, you're clearly dodging the theme of the topic. God commanded ISRAEL to KEEP THE PASSOVER, FOREVER as He had given it to them in Exodus 12. Now, please show us FROM SCRIPTURE that GOD canceled that command.
     
  16. Ziggy

    Ziggy Well-Known Member
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    Pastor Bob: "What better place is there in which to hide than the Word of God? Would you rather michelle hide in human understanding or the tradition of men?"

    Pastor Bob, this still is a double standard (Ed, take note!): if the MV supporters continually played "duck and spin" and chose to hide behind endless scripture quotes from the NASV or NIV, refusing to reply to allegations coming from the KJVO side, would they not be severely criticized by the KJVO proponents for refusing to answer the question and for merely quoting endless scriptures? And would the KJVO proponents not then crow loudly that the MV proponents "couldn't answer" the claims being made, thereby proving their position to be totally wrong? Methinks yes.

    The bottom line remains that scriptural proof for any kind of "onlyism" simply is *not* forthcoming, and "hiding in the scriptures" will not change that fact.

    Ziggy

    ==================

    Still waiting for any evidence that "Easter" in Ac 12:4 was *ever* claimed to be a pagan festival before AD 1960.
     
  17. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward New Member

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    HankD,

    You may want to check the pre KJV english Bibles as they refute your false claim where you said "That is why “Passover” in the gospel of Luke becomes “Easter” in Acts"


    Jim
     
  18. michelle

    michelle New Member

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    Passover: fulfilled in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour - He is literally the Passover Lamb that shed his blood for our sins, and covers our sins over the doorpost of our hearts, and God has passed over us from his wrath. This was/is the spiritual of the literal fulfillment of the physical representation of the sacrificial lamb whose blood was placed upon the doorposts of the Hebrews, and the Lord passed over all those who had the blood of the Lamb without blemish, from God's judgement.


    days of unleavened bread: currently being fulfilled in each believer by our Lord Jesus Christ on our journey towards being the perfect man, and our ultimate resurrection. It is the representation of the Israelites journey into the wilderness and out of Egypt eating unleavened bread. Leaven represents sin. We are daily being fed God's word (bread) and led on our journey in the sinless perfection of Jesus Christ.


    Love in Jesus Christ our Lord and Saviour,
    michelle
     
  19. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward New Member

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    Cranston, you wouldn't be able to comprehend it.
     
  20. Jim Ward

    Jim Ward New Member

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    Cranston, you wouldn't be able to comprehend it. </font>[/QUOTE]Cranston, does "for ever" always mean for ever?
     
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