I'm putting this in this forum since it is a matter of ecclesiology. On the NA28 thread in the Bible Versions forum the subject of Eph. 4:11 came up when I opined that John MacArthur was mistaken in his interpretation of it. MacArthur teaches that in that verse, the terms "pastors" and "teachers" are talking about the same individuals, based on the Granville Sharp rule of koine Greek grammar. So instead of both pastors and teachers in the church, we have pastor/teachers, one office. I object to this interpretation on several grounds. (1) MacArthur is misusing the Granville Sharp rule, which states that when there is the formation in the Greek, definite article + noun + kai (kai, "and") + noun, the two nouns are referring to the same person. But old Granville (the grammarian's name) only applied the rule to singular nouns, not plural, as MacArthur would have it. There are scholars who disagree with me, including a Greek scholar friend, but no less than Daniel Wallace did his dissertation on this, coming out on Granville's side. See a condensation of it at: http://bible.org/article/sharp-redivivus-reexamination-granville-sharp-rule. See a simpler explanation at: http://www.biblicalevangelist.org/index.php?id=1039&issue=Volume+41% 2C+Number+4. (2) I see nowhere else in the NT where we might interpret that pastor and teacher are one and the same. (3) It seems very plain from other passages that there are teachers who are not pastors: Acts 13:1, 1 Cor. 12:28, Heb. 5:12. Personally, I highly value many of my teachers (who were not pastors) in Bible college and seminary over the years, not to mention the many wonderful SS teachers I've had or known. I think it is "dissing" them to not include them as important to Christ's church. Caveat: I think one person can be a pastor, a teacher, or both. But they are not the same office.