Pastor in sin !

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by bruren777, Jan 5, 2006.

  1. bruren777

    bruren777
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    We left a church as well as some other people because of the sin the pastor was in, he refuses to admit it,he said, "God will forgive me". If he has not admitted his sin, how does he expect God to forgive him ?

    Others know about the sin, but prefer not to believe it.
     
  2. PastorGreg

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    Why didn't you stay there and go completely through the Biblical process of attempted restoration of the offending brother?
     
  3. PastorSBC1303

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    ok. What is the purpose of your thread?

    Your pastor is in sin. You left. What do you want us to comment on?
     
  4. bruren777

    bruren777
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    We did talk to him and he denies everything and explains it as the other person is off their Prozac.

    The purpose of my thread is two things: 1, Pastors are subject to sin like the rest of us. Strictly speaking for myself, I tend to hold pastors to a higher standard albeit it is as I said at the start of this sentence.

    2, Has anyone been in a church where the pastor was in sin ? How was it resolved ?

    I have been in 3 churches where the pastor was in sin, but not one in which the pastor denied the accusation
     
  5. Joshua Rhodes

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    I was music pastor in a church for almost a year and a half before MY sin was discovered. The senior pastor and staff came together with me, prayed, and offered me the chance to step away graciously. I opted to leave with an explanation of my sin to the congregation, and after a year out of the ministry, some counseling and alot of prayer and seeking God's face, He restored me. I now serve in a part-time capacity at a music ministry in Missouri.

    You can imagine that I might have a unique persepective of the situation you mention. But I don't. We all sin, and we all struggle with pride to some degree. Is he wrong? Maybe, but it is not your job to play Holy Spirit in his life. You have three choices: 1) Leave the church, 2) Confront him Biblically or, 3) Overlook it. Seems you made your choice. Move on from the situation.

    In His Grip,
    joshua
     
  6. HankD

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    Psalm 130:3 If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand?
     
  7. guitarpreacher

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    Do you have proof? He wouldn't be the first person to be accused of something falsely.

    Also, you said the pastor said that God will forgive him. If he denies that he did anything wrong, what is it that God is forgiving him for?
     
  8. TaterTot

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    Yes, I have been in a churches where the pastor was in sin. Each situation, the person was treated graciously and biblically. In one case, the pastor would not confess it, then videos were found. By that time, the church was already so divided over who supported him and who didnt, it caused a split. 10 years later, the church is still healing.
     
  9. SaggyWoman

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    Every pastor is "in sin".
     
  10. Hope of Glory

    Hope of Glory
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    But, there's a difference between willful sin or lawlessness and sin.
     
  11. Scott J

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    What sin is not willful?

    Lawlessness I understand as a general state of rebellion but every sin is an act of a rebellious will.
     
  12. bruren777

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    Yes, I do have proof. The person whom was directly affected informed me of the reason they left the church, but not until I left.

    They did want to be responsible for people leaving the church because they told people what really happened. That was the proper and Christian thing to do. We left after speaking to the pastor and prayerful consideration. He denied knowing why the person left.

    SaggyWoman, I agree with you, however in this situation, the other person left for their own safety.
    Romans, 3:23, for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God. NASB

    Scott, I agree with you sin is an act of willful rebellion to God. Sin is a choice one makes, God gave us the ability to make our own choices, therefore the free will to sin, also the freedom to make the right choice and accept Jesus as Lord and Savior obviously He desires for us to accept His Son. He could have made us all like robots, we would follow what ever He willed.
     
  13. mountainrun

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    Saggy woman, If every pastor is in sin, then is anything a pastor does acceptable?

    Adultery, homosexuality, thievery?

    God gave us a standard for pastors and we are bound to hold them to it by the Bible.

    The Bible certainly does say that we all sin.
    It is also made extremely clear that it is not acceptable.

    It seems that whatever this pastor has done, you can add being a liar to the list according to bruren's last post.

    MR
     
  14. Major B

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    You don't have proof; you have a testimony that has not been confirmed. Proof would be at least two or three witnesses to the actual offense, or some kind of documented physical evidence. I don't care who the person is who talked to you, nor how much you trust them--hearsay is hearsay. We are not to RECEIVE an accusation against an elder "except by two or three witnesses."

    I am sensitive to this because when I was forced out of my pastorate, I was accused of many things--NONE of which I had done--and with every telling, the story got larger. Every time I have candidated to pastor a church, these same tale bearers have called pulpit committees to spike my candidacy--in one case, this was done the day before the committee was going to recommend and present me to the church.

    It got so bad for me that a state convention official (who knew me, the church--he was ordained there--and the situation) urged me to sue the originators of the tales for defamation of character. I said, "I don't believe in suing another believer, because of 1 Cor 6. His reply, "that only applies to believers, which these slugs are not." I decided not to sue anyway, and I have stopped actively pursuing pastoral ministry.

    This man may be "in sin" in a special way, but unless he either admits it, or there is bona fide evidence that will pass court muster, then you don't know what is true, no matter who tells you what.

    [ January 06, 2006, 10:10 PM: Message edited by: Major B ]
     
  15. Hope of Glory

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    Lawlessness is doing what is right in one's own eyes and not acknowledging that they are sin. Many homosexuals fall into this category. Willful sin is practicing lawlessness.

    Those who are lawless will be denied an entrance into the coming Kingdom. They will still be saved (they have their fire insurance), but they will be the ones weeping and gnashing their teeth when they see what they missed out on.

    If you practice the willful sin, oe lawlessness, you will be cut off, you will perish. 1 Corinthians 3:15 says, "He shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as through fire." What you lose is not your salvation,
    but the reward of your inheritance which includes riches, and positions of honor and glory in the
    coming kingdom of Jesus Christ.

    This sounds like what this pastor is doing, based on the information at hand, and we are expected to hold pastors to a pretty high standard. I don't think that lawlessness fits into that standard.
     
  16. Major B

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    Again, folks, we don't KNOW ANYTHING about what this man has or has not done.

    My only "sins" in the church where I pastored were
    1. In preaching the truth with exuberance and stepping (unknowingly) on the toes of the richest man in the congregation about his gambling habit--again, I did not know he had one when I preached on it.
    2. Being one of a group of pastors who led in a local move of God in several churches in our area that saw 900 people saved in 16 weeks.
    3. Introducing more contemporary worship.
    4. Bringing in "different kinds" of people.
    5. Having a small dog in the parsonage (which I did, like every other pastor before me) and two dogs outside for security--we were 'way out in the country and my wife was scared at night.
    6. Trashing the parsonage (which I did not do, I have the photographs of what it looked like when I left.)
    7. Of accusing a group of men from the church of attacking me verbally--which they did, and which I pinned them on.
    8. Of moving, with the approval of the deacons, our extra-large pulpit to make room on the platform for musical instruments, and so people shorter than 6 feet tall could be seen.
    9. Of bringing guitars and guitar stands into the church (One fellow said it looked like a saloon--and he should know).
    10. Of using the New King James (guilty, and most of the congregation used the NKJV anyway) and referring to the Greek sometimes--(guilty).

    To these were added lots of innuendo, nods, winks, and sly accusations--of what, I don't know.

    I am certainly not perfect: I can be pugnacious when challenged, I get eaten up with zeal for the house of God and His Word, I have a gift for saying things directly and to the point, and I have, in the past, been less than diplomatic in dealing with "meatheads."

    Other things (whatever they are) I did not do, and as yet, no one has even had the guts to tell me what the hidden accusations were.

    Again--is there biblically acceptable evidence that this pastor has done anything?
     
  17. Hope of Glory

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    That is the reason that I qualified my opinion based on the knowledge we have at hand. I did not say, nor did I intend to imply that the man was guilty.
     
  18. Soulman

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    We beat up everyone that appears to be in more sin than we are. It makes us look good. What we have to remember is that we are under a curse. As long as we live in this body we will sin.

    The flesh is not weak but powerful. More powerful than we will ever know. When we allow our spirituality to slip even a little(and we all do), the flesh will rise to the occasion to take control. The bible says that our hearts are desperately wicked. Before knowing Christ Jn.8:44 You are of your father the devil.

    Pastors are men and are subject to the cyclical nature of our spirituality. When we are in the down side bad things get in. The only way to guard for this is to constantly seek God's will with all of mind, body and soul.

    God forgives us so completely because He knows this body will lose it from time to time. If we really loved our neighbor as ourselves we would be more apt to forgive provided the man has repented.

    We are undone!

    Soulman
     
  19. mountainrun

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    bruren, With #1, I agree. Pastors are subject to sin. But unlike some others here, I don't excuse sin just because the Bible says that all sin.

    It's a statement of fact, not a permission slip.

    I also agree that pastors, and deacons should be held to a higher standard. Paul agreed as well in 1 Timothy:3.

    As for # 2, yes I am now in a church where the former pastor was involved in sin.

    The sin{s} were compulsive spending to the point where his family did without food, failure to pay his bills and slothfulness in performing his work. {He didn't show up at all.}

    He readily admitted to all these things and told the deacons he felt God was leading him to resign.

    How was it dealt with?

    I must tell you I am not making this up.

    He was given $2,000 to get caught up on his payments. He was allowed to continue drawing a full time wage while taking on a full time secular position to earn more money.

    Does this sound like a wise way to minister to a compulsive spender? Give him MORE money?

    He was not required to show up at church except on Wed. nites and Sundays.

    Is this the way to deal with chronic absenteeism?

    Naturally, the spending problem was magnified with the increase in income.
    A year later he was gone.

    His landlord has yet to collect the rent due.

    A deacon gave him a good reference and he is still in the ministry.

    MR
     
  20. Soulman

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    Quote: "bruren, With #1, I agree. Pastors are subject to sin. But unlike some others here, I don't excuse sin just because the Bible says that all sin."

    Mountainrun, neither am I. I am sorry I made it sound as though I excuse sin. I don't. I just understand our awful state.

    We just need to take a look at our own sin before becomming all self righteous against someone else. I find that the biggest judges eventually are exposed as their sin is uncovered as well.

    Sin is wrong. No doubt and we cannot allow a man of God who is in open sin to go unfettered.

    I recently saw one of the toughest pastors I know fall. He was the first one to come down on a member of his flock for the littlest things. Now he is out of the ministry for adultry.

    How the mighty fall! I am just issuing a word of caution. Yes, we should judge things biblically. Just be sure the ones doing the judging are doing it compassionatly bearing in mind their own shortcommings.

    The bible does say "all have sinned" It also says that "we ALL fall short".
     

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