Pastor Need To Have Other Skills Too.

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by gb93433, Jan 6, 2012.

  1. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Daily, a church planter or pastor asks me for advice on starting a church, building a church, taking a church through transitions, etc. Below I have compiled many of my posts offering such advice.

    Four months ago, I stepped down as pastor of Courageous Church. The advice I’d offer you now is different from the advice I would have offered you when I was there.

    Here are 4 quick nuggets that come to my mind now.


    The Rest of the story is at http://www.churchleaders.com/pastor...er&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Daily-Update
     
  2. Siberian

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    It takes 7 or 8 years of education, and then a lot of on-the-job training to learn to be a good pastor. And then it takes a lot of time and effort to be a good pastor, and then time and work to improve. It is difficult to imagine most pastors also able to become really good at a trade.

    At the end of the day, I'd rather be at the top of my game in one field (pastoring, church planting, missions, etc.), than versatile when it comes to marketable skills.
     
  3. annsni

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    I think that you can do more ministry when you leave the pastorate. A pastor who has done well can move on and maybe start an organization that mentors other pastors and has conferences and training for the pastors in your area. I'd love to see that on Long Island.

    But in our church, many of our pastors came to the ministry from careers that had nothing to do with ministry. My own husband was a computer engineer - both hardware and software - in the audio industry. It's served him well working for our church and he still has two clients that come to him to do small projects (maybe 10 hours in a month) periodically (once a year or so). He still has his contacts in the industry and could very easily get back into it should something ever happen. He also has a side business hosting websites that doesn't require much work at all but brings in enough for the winter boat bill and a few other things. :)
     
  4. preacher4truth

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    I can't say I got a whole lot out of reading this fellows blog that lends toward what he says as credible. Maybe a point or two, but the rest is prattle.

    First, he is young, sounds a little green, somewhat bitter, vengeful, and to top it off it is written because he lost a congregation.

    Secondly, he gets on aged pastors who need to have a trade to fall back on? Really? I can see a 70 year old pastor going back to laying block for a living. Do we have some Scripture here that show a NT pastor should have a plan B? Yes, we need this kid to instruct these aged pastors.

    This kid failed and had to move on, due to poor preparation. That is all. This should be a time of humility for him, yet he wants to drag others down for his own failures and act as a teacher to others, even the aged. A huge dose of humility is in order, and is something he's obviously missed on this particular journey of his.

    What I saw in this is a young kid attempting to school everyone else off of his green mistakes, while taking a swing at others as if he opinionatedly knows that they are failing and don't have a trade to fall back on. I see no humility whatsoever.

    I am reminded of this passage: Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, But humility goes before honor. Proverbs 18:12.
     
  5. SaggyWoman

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    Having been there done that, some of the best pastors and ministers are ones who have had the experience outside the "church" in the world. It is a "must have."
     
  6. glfredrick

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    Having been a pastor, church planter, North American missionary, seminary grad, and a NAMB church planter assessor, I know that the skill set required to be a successful pastor is often beyond the reach of a good many men, but as God calls He also enables and I have met men who were rather successful with very little education or "worldly" wisdom. Not many of them, for sure, but some.

    In doing church planter assessment, we assess for 13 required qualities and the candidate must score high in virtually all of them. We also assess for 3 additional qualities that give a "feel" for the potential of the candidate, but they are not included in the final assessment tally and cannot count directly against the candidate -- but they can cause the assessor to say "not yet" if he or she believes that is the proper decision.

    Additionally, the assessment is not one where the candidate gets to tell the assessor(s) what they "think" (which is rather easy). Rather, it is "Tell me a time when you did..." whatever is the assessed area. If the candidate hesitates or obviosly brings in an experience that does not qualify him as a true church planter (or yet) they may be asked to do some additional work alongside a more experienced planter as an intern for a time to gain wisdom and experience.

    A for instance is in the area of entrepreurship. "Tell me about a time when you started something from scratch and developped it into a viable business, ministry, etc." If the only thing the candidate can think of is his newspaper route, he is probably not a candidate for church planting.

    I have only passed forward two candidates of all I have assessed for church planting. The rest were told either "not yet" or "find another career."

    The two I passed forward successfully started new congregations, one as a pastor I called to take over my own lead planting efforts and another in a different Baptist group than my own, who also managed to get a new congregation up and running (with God's grace much in evidence!).
     
  7. Siberian

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    I'm glad no one asked me the "entrepreurship" question before heading to Siberia; I never would have had the sweet opportunity to plant a church there. By the grace of God, that church is still thriving.
     
  8. gb93433

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    There was a day when seminary professors were also pastors, but not today.

    When I pastored I never accepted the excuses of people who said that they could not live the Christian life in the world. I was living proof that it could be done.
     
  9. gb93433

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    Dawson Trotman declared that out of the 29 prospective missionaries he interviewed only one was satisfied with their devotional life. 29 were wanting to cross an ocean and be a missionary and 28 were not faithful in the most basic way. That was in the early 1950s.
     
  10. annsni

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    That was one thing that hubby felt would help with starting this new campus. In 1988 he quit his job and started a new business with 4 other partners, becoming well known in the audio industry and building the business to a point where it was sold for many millions of dollars to a Japanese firm. He went from nothing but an idea to sale of the company - and went on to start his own successful consulting firm. He loves to start things and see them succeed. Even now, he is upstairs working on programming something for the music equipment he has that he found a bug in - and he contacted the company and is now working to fix the bug for them! LOL I really think that having done all this (and I guess having that kind of a mind to start things and bring them to fruition) has served him and will serve him well. :)
     
  11. gb93433

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    There are some men who are good at starting businesses and getting them profitable but are not good at managing them in such a way to keep the employees long term.
     
  12. annsni

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    Hubby did well and not only that but when they went through a period of time when he had to lay off workers due to no income (but they recovered from that), his employees continued to work for him for free! :) When he sold the business, he rewarded them well. They all received part of the sale proceeds. He still is friends with every one of his employees and actually hired many of them in his next job.
     
  13. glfredrick

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    Of course they are -- when they are also men who think HIGHLY of God's Word and the local church.

    I know a good many seminary professors who pastor churches! Virtually no professor gets hired at my alma matter, Southern Seminary unless they have actual pastoral experience first.
     
  14. glfredrick

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    Don't forget the other 12 areas that are checked. Someone might score low in one area and be great in others. One area does not disqualify.
     
  15. gb93433

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    Unless things have changed in recent years it against SBC rules for a man to be a professor and pastor full time at the same time. He can only be an interim.

    My understanding is that A.T. Robertson was both a professor and pastor at the same time.
     
    #15 gb93433, Jan 10, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 10, 2012
  16. Siberian

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    Russell Moore is professor of Christian Theology and Ethics at Southern, and is also the Preaching Pastor of Highview Baptist Church.

    Then there is professor York who also pastors Buck Run Baptist Church.

    There are several others...
     
  17. gb93433

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    Are they full time pastors or interims?
     
  18. glfredrick

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    Then there are a lot of SBC profs breaking rules. Who is the SBC to set "rules" anyway? Are we not a congregational Convention?
     
  19. glfredrick

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    They are not interns... They are sometimes THE senior pastor and sometimes A pastor in a multi-pastor church.

    I'd tell you the other names to add to the list, but I would run out of time before I got them all listed. Almost all of the profs have some church-related ministry effort.
     
  20. gb93433

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    Glad to hear. I hope they get more profs who are currently pastoring. My understanding from some former profs was that it was the seminary who was against it because it would draw attention to seminary profs who were pastoring and gain students in their congregations rather than pastors who were not profs in churches in Ft. Worth, etc.

    What you have stated is great to hear. It is my understanding that the new profs at SWBTS no longer have benefits. So if that is the case then they must seek other employment to have benefits.

    Recently I was told why SWBTS discontinued their counseling program. Sad. They had probably the best counseling program in the U.S. Now the same program director is at B.H. Carroll Theological Institute.
     

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