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Pastor Search Committee/ Calling a Pastor

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Eagle, Jun 13, 2010.

  1. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Actually, my post on the 1920s pastor election process intended to support your contention. And I never for one minute doubted that you supported congregational government. I regret that my posts led you to those conclusions, for I meant the exact opposite.
     
  2. The Archangel

    The Archangel Well-Known Member

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    No problem. That's one of the draw backs to serial, one-sided exchanges with no opportunity to hear inflection. And, it's always possible that I misread something that was plainly clear.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  3. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello Tom Butler

    You hit the nail on the head, when you said...........
    The most important question about any prospective pastor has to be, is he the man the LORD wants to be our pastor.
    A Churches pulpit committee, should make this there top priority.

    As men, we can not see into the heart of any prospective pastor, but God knows who He wants us to call.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Seeing it from the pastors perspective, I have received requests from Churches, for such detailed information, that it was obvious that they were trying to do the work of the Holy Spirit, in finding a pastor.

    On one occasion, I returned their questionnaire(blank), with a letter explaining the mistake that they were making, and suggested that they fervently pray and ask the Lord to let them know who to call.
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    First, I wouldn't put out a general ad looking for a pastor. Much better to ask other pastors of churches with whom you fellowship if they know of someone that might fit your church. Ask the seminary or colleges with which you fellowship or associate. These people should know your church and know what you are about. They should also understand the need for confidentiality for both parties (the church and the pastor).

    I don't think a pastor should send a resume unsolicited. First, it is presumptuous. Second, it can indicate some problems. A pastor should let another pastor know that he is praying about the future and perhaps is ministry at a location is coming to an end, or communicate that to a trusted person at a school.

    As a pastor, I would not send my resume unsolicited; and I would recommend that churches not accept or give credence to unsolicited resumes.
     
  5. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    I think this is a classic fallacy, that we can either do our homework and ask question or we can follow the Spirit. I am not sure what you mean by "detailed information," but the Spirit's works through the asking and answering of questions many times. If I were on a search committee, it would be a very thorough examination with reliance on the Spirit.

    The Spirit is not going to give you a name. He has given us his word and it is final and infallible. In the word, he has given us guidelines for pastors. He expects us to figure out if men meet those guidelines.
     
  6. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Good morning Pastor Larry

    The kinds of "detailed information" that I was talking about, were incidental questions about my hobbies & personal debt, and things like that.
    (It’s been c.20 year, so I don’t remember the exact questions).

    By all means a Church aught to ask a lot of questions, about a man’s doctrine and beliefs and hear him preach a few times, before they make this important decision.

    But ultimately it is very important that both parties be dependant upon the LORD to guide them in area.
    --------------------------------------------------
    You said......
    I wasn’t saying, that a Church shouldn’t “do it’s homework”, but only that they should allow the Lord into the process.

    This is why a Church needs to form a pulpit committee, selected from it’s most Godly members.(Folks who will truly be seeking the Lord’s will.)
    Yes a Church aught to have a congregational form of government, but not every member has the maturity to make these kinds of Spiritual decisions.

    This is why the pulpit committee’s initial vote is required to be 100%, while the congregation’s final vote is usually required to be only 75%.

    This should be a Spiritual decision, not a popularity contest.
     
  7. Timsings

    Timsings Member
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    My church started a pastor search process about three years ago. Our process was similar to those described by several here, notably Tom Butler and Pastor Larry. Before the committee actually started work we went through a long period of discussion about the direction of our church, what we needed and wanted in a new pastor, and other things. My wife chaired the Transition Committee that moderated these discussion sessions and tabulated the results. My daughter was a member of our pastor search committee. One of the resources that was very helpful to us was the Center for Congregational Health. They have a lot of resources for churches that are looking for staff members, particularly pastors.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  8. Ruiz

    Ruiz New Member

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    I wanted to input more earlier but I did not have time. My view of the selection process is slightly different than others, but I believe I have Biblical support. Yet, let me give this to you in premises.

    Premise 1: A Pastor must be appointed after seeing he meets the qualifications as outlined in I Timothy 3 and Titus 1.

    I do not believe the church or search committee can testify to the man's character after meeting him over several weekends or even a couple of combined weeks. When a church appoints an Elder, they say this person meets the qualifications of an Elder. Our modern process jettisons this idea and lessens qualifications for a more business like process.


    Premise 2: The majority, though not all, Pastors in the New Testament were organically grown from within the church.


    The admonition to appoint Elders in every church seemed to convey the congregation should be set on building up their own elders from within the congregation. This ensures a couple of things. First, the congregation can testify of the character of the person from living with and alongside this person. Secondly, the congregation and Pastor is not surprised by theology and/or problems.

    Premise 3: Whenever the congregation had to get outside Pastoral support, they relied mainly upon the testimony of Godly churches and men they already trusted to help in that search, not unknown references and a resume.

    In other words, when Timothy or Titus went to Pastor, they had a strong recommendation by Paul, a person they trusted. They saw both the wisdom and character of Paul and trusted him to recommend another man. However, usually that person was not at the church long, only long enough to appoint someone else.

    Premise 4: Church planting was another norm for those not in the Pastoral role within their own church.

    Other men that were deemed qualified and called into the ministry were often involved in church planting. We call this missions, but the sole purpose was to plant churches. The church plant was under the mother church at the beginning of the church plant process, thus the new church is getting a person the mother church believes to be qualified.

    Premise 5: Rarely, if ever, do we see people leaving a church to go and Pastor another church.

    There are some places this may be inferred, but normally people either planted churches, became Pastors of the church they were in, or they were appointed to go to a church in order to help that church raise up Godly Pastors.

    Conclusion

    Some can make an argument that some of my citations is referring to descriptive elements of the Bible and not prescriptive. Yes, some aspects this argument can be made. However, I believe premise 1 conveys an idea that is not negotiable and I believe is best framed in the ideas listed above. Premise 1 cannot be determined by calling references and references of references. Rather, Premise 1 can only be determined by observing the life of the person over an extended period of time.
     
  9. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Thanks stilllearning,

    I am not sure why these questions are troubling. I think questions like these speak volumes to the type of person someone is. Someone whose hobbies are watching TV reruns and reading comic books is likely not the kind of guy you want for your pastor. Someone who has no hobbies is likewise probably not the kind of person you want. Someone who has a lot of personal debt is probably not the kind of guy you want as a pastor (not speaking of unavoidable medical debt). But personal debt often says a lot about a mismanaged or materialistic life. It also means he is a slave to others.

    If I ever were interviewed by a church, I would think it strange if they didn't ask these kinds of questions. Pastoring is a lot more than being able to give doctrinal answers.
     
  10. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello Pastor Larry

    You said.........
    By this statement, you have proved my point.

    The only Scripture that talks about TV is.........
    Titus 1:15
    “Unto the pure all things [are] pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving [is] nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled.”

    --------------------------------------------------
    A man being questioned, may be “the man” that God wants to pastor a Church, but if he is asked these kinds of personal questions, that have no bearing in the ministry, his answers may poison the whole process.

    There may be a member of the pulpit committee that believes that watching TV is a sin, and this is his personal conviction, but this is not a reason not to call a pastor.

    A pastor that watches TV, may be exactly what this person needs.
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    No, that's not the only thing the Bible says about TV. It says "I will not look on any wicked thing." It says, "Set your mind on things above." It says, Think on things that are pure, lovely, good report, etc. It says, "Guard your heart with all diligence."There are many more things that could be applied to entertainment.

    But that's not even the issue because watching TV isn't wrong. And the question wasn't about watching TV but about hobbies.

    But what a person says his hobbies are tells you a lot about the way a man views life. It tells you about his values.

    They do have a bearing in the ministry. A man who spends 20-30 hours a week watching TV will not be fit to stand in the pulpit in many cases. It tells you that a man isn't reading like he should probably. It probably tells you something about his family life. It tells you something about the way he thinks (since it is almost universally recognized that TV does not create good thinking habits and patterns). There have been many studies about the ill affects of TV on the mind, on education, on thinking, on culture, and on families.

    So there are a lot of reasons why something like that would be an appropriate question, and the more I think of it, probably an important question.

    This is true. I don't think anyone said that it was.

    Really? Is that a biblical thing? I missed that in the Bible.

    Of course not. No one needs a pastor who watches TV.

    There are some things for which the attempted defense of them points out the absurdity of them to begin with. I think this is one of them. Your post here bordered on the absurd. Don't do that. Let's have a good conversation if we are going to have one. Let's raise the level here.
     
    #31 Pastor Larry, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2010
  12. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hi Pastor Larry

    My post was deliberately absurd, in response to the absurdity of your statement......
    What a my pastor does in his home, in his free time, is his business.
    I am not the judge, of what kind of activity is acceptable.

    My hobby is playing chess, but I keep it relatively under my hat, because I have met a lot of Christians who think that it is a waste of time.

    My post, was not meant to be a defense of TV, but a reminder that we can not see into a man’s heart, no matter how many questions we may ask about his activities.

    A pulpit committee who follows your advice, are more likely to end up with a pastor who lies, than a Godly man.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Now, concerning TV.
    I see any pastor’s blanket attack upon TV, as a big mistake.
    He may convince some people his congregation to get rid of their TV’s, and they will end up seeing themselves as somehow more holy, than others who watch TV.
    This will do them more harm, than good.

    As for your list of Scriptures, warning about entertainment; It was interesting.......
    These instructions from Scripture, are great; and they will protect a Christian from falling into sin, and destroying there life.
    And sure enough, you can see wicked things on TV, just as you can on the internet, or on most streets in the world.

    But this is where an attack up TV, hits a snag. (Why stop at TV?)
    Get red of your computers, news papers, magazines and novels.
    And to be protected, from what you might see outside, lets all move into a commune, and the pastor will direct what everyone does.

    Now over the centuries, a lot of pastors have followed this same line of thought, thinking that they were protecting their flocks.
    But this is not God’s plan.
    --------------------------------------------------
    With all that said, sure enough too much TV is not good for anybody.
    But the problem is, a pastor who admits that he watches TV, does not mean that he goes overboard in this area.

    And of course you have never said that TV was a sin. But some people think it is.
    This is the point I was making.
    Perspective pastors who are wise, will go into great detail about their doctrinal stands, but be purposely vague about their personal hobbies.

    Because they will not have the time or opportunity, to explain how they participate in their particular hobbies, in a Godly manner.
    --------------------------------------------------
    Finally you said.......
    I beg to differ.
    If a man comes into a Church, that had previously been led by a legalistic pastor, that Church “needs” a pastor who will lead them away from these destructive attitudes, and teach them to follow the leadership of the Holy Spirit, instead of a man’s rules.
     
    #32 stilllearning, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2010
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Perhaps you could begin by demonstrating what was abusrd. As I read your post, most of it (by your own admission) doesn’t even address what I saide.

    To some degree, but your point here seems to be based on the idea that a man’s public life is disconnected from his private life. I disagree.

    Actually, you can. Because a man’s life is an expression of his heart. That is why Proverbs says, “Guard your heart with all diligence because from it flow the wellsprings of life.” That’s why Jesus said, “Out of the heart the man speaks,” and I can think we legitimately say acts. You can’t see his heart, but you can see his life. And by seeing his life, you will see his heart.

    Based on what?

    Glad you agree with me. Surely you see that I made no blanket attack on TV.

    Yes indeed.

    I don’t know. Ask someone who made an attack on TV. I didn’t. I have one, and I watch it.

    There is certainly some truth here as well. But that wasn’t the illustration, so I didn’t address this. These verses apply to a lot more than TV, but they certainly apply to TV. So when you said that there was only one thing the Bible said about TV, you were incorrect.

    I don’t think there is any basis for this, particularly not in any argument I have made. You can address this to people who make this argument. Don’t address it to me.

    Yes, but it’s not just “too much” but the wrong kinds. That was my point.

    Glad you agree with me. Again, notice that nothing you said here remotely addresses my point.

    So you are admitting that everything you said here is irrelevant to my point.

    Then address it to them, not me.

    No they won’t. A man with something to hide is not fit. A man who is asked about his hobbies and answers vaguely in order not to divulge to much is being dishonest. He is automatically disqualified. If you don’t want to answer, then say, “I don’t want to answer that.” Pulpit committees should be extremely wary of a man who answers anything vaguely. Or to borrow from Scripture, “Let your yes be yes and your no be no.” Don’t be vague. It insults the intelligence of the committee and church, and makes it look like you have something to hide. Instead, say, “I think that question is inappropriate for this reason and that reason. Convince me I am wrong about that and I will answer.”

    Why not?


    But I notice that you have no Scripture on which to differ with me. Isn’t that problematic. You think a guy who was taught that TV is sinful needs a pastor who watches TV. I think the guy who was taught that TV is wrong needs a pastor who teaches the Bible. Whether or not he watches TV is irrelevant if the Bible the is the authority. It is only relevant if the pastor is the authority.

    I agree. But that’s not what you said. You said this man needs a pastor who watches TV. I see no indication in Scripture that someone who has been taught wrongly needs a pastor who watches TV. What this guy needs is a pastor who teaches the word.

    So perhaps that’s our difference. I don’t think discipleship of people depends on watching TV. I think it depends on teaching and living the Word. The last thing most people need (including pastors) is more time in front of TV. Next time you have a commercial break, do some research into the affects of TV and visual media on thinking and culture. You will see a church should be thinking about these things.

    And I think that what a man does in his private life is important and should be explored by a church before calling him. If you don’t ask, and end up with a man who spends his life watching TV, don’t be surprised when you are not fed the serious matter of the Bible.
     
  14. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Hello Pastor Larry

    You shot through my last post, yet it was based, in response to “your words”.......
    “Someone whose hobbies are watching TV reruns and reading comic books is likely not the kind of guy you want for your pastor.”

    Now you have stated that you’re a big TV watcher, so it must be comic books, that makes a man unfit for the pulpit.

    I can’t remember ever reading one; But what exactly is the matter with comic books?
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    You need to go back and read what I said and read what you said. You even admitted in your last post that I didn't say what you were responding to. You were talking about people who think watching TV is a sin, something which you admit I never said.

    Blowing it up in big letters makes it easier to see that you were not basing your response on what I said.

    I was speaking very specifically, using examples of things in a man's life that render him "likely" unsuitable for the pastorate.

    Where is that? Can you please point it out to me? Or is this another case where you are commenting on something I did not say?

    If you go back and read my words, you will see that I didn't say I am a "big TV watcher." I said I have a TV and I watch it. My kids watch Curious George and Clifford and occasionally Martha (none of which I have seen). I watch Law and Order and Law and Order: SVU when it is new and when I am home. I watch This Old House and Ask This Old House when it is new or a rerun that I am interested in. I watch a few sports. And that's about it.

    No. I commented to two specific things (watching TV reruns and reading comic books) as examples of windows into the soul of a man that probably means he is not the kind of pastor you want. I cant' imagine that is even debatable. Do you really want a pastor whose hobbies are watching TV reruns and reading comic books? I suppose nothing is morally wrong with it (in some cases), but is that really the mark of a good pastor? Again, I can't imagine this is even a debate.

    I said it is "likely" that this is not the type of man you want. Of course there are exceptions among poorly trained people who have never heard preaching saturated with anything but the goal of relevance based on the latest fad. To rougly quote John Piper, the reason so many people doubt the abiding value of expositional preaching is because they have never been exposed to it.

    Your point was that a church should not even ask these questions. My response is that they should ask them, and should think carefully about the response they get to them. The way that mean spend their lives and free time shows a lot about their values and their love.

    And you better believe that someone whose hobbies are reading classic literature is going to be a far different kind of pastor and preacher than someone whose hobbies are reading comic books.

    Nothing if you're twelve I guress. Other than that, I think it is pretty obvious, isn't it?

    It's about the life of the mind. And I suppose questioning it proves my point. We don't have congregations who are trained to think biblically and we have people who think that we shouldn't ask what kind of influences their pastor's or prospective pastor's are exposing their own thinking to.

    You can't sit around the TV constantly and not have your thinking affected by it. Again, read the studies. There are lots of them. Neil Postman has a book entitled Amusing Ourselves to Death which is very valuable resource in starting to think about this issue.

    Comic books, by nature, are a very specific kind of literature that does not and cannot carry enduring truth. I am not saying it's wrong, but when that's a hobby that someone devotes their time to, it says a lot about the way a man thinks. You can't read cheap and tawdry literature and speak with captivating language to a congregation. You will become what you expose yourself to.

    And now we are way off topic. Back to the point, the pulpit committee should absolutely ask about a man's "off the job" life, his hobbies and interests, and the like. Because they may find a guy they like and they may find a guy they don't like.
     
    #35 Pastor Larry, Jun 16, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 16, 2010
  16. stilllearning

    stilllearning Active Member

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    Pastor Larry

    I have to admit, that my last post was king of a bait, to make point.

    You say, that Churches should ask a perspective pastor, about his habits:
    But I said, that this was unwise, because it would poison the whole process:
    (By giving the pulpit committee the wrong impression.)

    And I have proven my point.
    --------------------------------------------------
    If a pulpit committee were to ask you, “what you do with your free time”, and you even mentioned that you had a TV, than that would send the wrong message to them.
    And it opens a can of worms, that doesn’t accomplish anything.

    We both know that you don’t go overboard in this area, and you somewhat proved it to me, by explaining who watches it in your home and what they watch.
    But that was none of my business.

    If you’re a man of God, and have a sound doctrinal statement of faith, and I have heard you preach, and I have been praying for guidance, and God gives me a peace about you being my pastor;
    That is all I need to know.
    --------------------------------------------------
    But, if I start prying around in your personal life, undoubtedly I am going to find something, that makes me uncomfortable, and that will hinder my ability to hear from the LORD about you.

    It’s like my rule, for giving to charitable organizations:
    I don’t do an intensive background check on them, I simply pray about it, and if God gives me a peace about supporting them, than I do.
    I trust the LORD, much more than I do my powers of observation.

    And that is the main point that I have been making.
    A Church/pulpit committee, will be much better off, if they trust the LORD more than they do themselves.

    They should trust, that God will protect them from calling the wrong man as their pastor.
     
  17. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    Well you start by polling the church to find out what everyone in the church wants in a pastor. This is the most important. Then you begin looking for the man that matches the wishes of everyone in the church.

    Also you need to find one with as many degrees as possible. You can never have to many degrees and this determines all the mans capabilities.

    Then after all of that you read your Bible and pray to God to bless the decision you just made without Him.

    :smilewinkgrin:
     
  18. Eagle

    Eagle Member

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    Funny man! :laugh: But seriously, were you there? How did you know what we did?
     
  19. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    You forgot to add one thing. He needs to be a dynamic preacher so he will draw large crowds. Forget about what Jesus taught about humility as first on the list of beatitudes, followed by mourning and being broekn by God.
     
  20. Eagle

    Eagle Member

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    I think you have made a good point here, stillearning. It was rather difficult getting to it - but I think you wrapped it up well here. That notion of the unnecessary opening of worm cans is hard for some folk to wrap their heads around - however, I think it full of prudence and wisdom.

    Pro 29:11 A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.
     
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