Pastor Yanked From Capitol Over 'Jesus' Prayer

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Jul 9, 2010.

  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    A North Carolina pastor was relieved of his duties as an honorary chaplain of the state house of representatives after he closed a prayer by invoking the name of Jesus.

    “I got fired,” said Ron Baity, pastor of Berean Baptist Church in Winston-Salem. He had been invited to lead prayer for an entire week but his tenure was cut short when he refused to remove the name Jesus from his invocation.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/09/pastor-yanked-capitol-jesus-prayer/?test=latestnews
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2007
    Messages:
    4,894
    Likes Received:
    27
    I am so glad this pastor stood his ground. We need a good fight like this at the highest level.
     
  3. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    When I led a prayer at my high school graduation in 1974 I was not allowed to close my prayer with "In Jesus' name". If faced with the same situation today I would refuse to lead the prayer.

    Edit: By the way, the reason was because there were Jews present.
     
    #3 KenH, Jul 9, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2010
  4. Jedi Knight

    Jedi Knight
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    4,934
    Likes Received:
    45
    Does it not make you think "how long oh Lord?" :jesus:
     
  5. windcatcher

    windcatcher
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2007
    Messages:
    2,764
    Likes Received:
    0
    I know hind sight is more like 20/20 compared to now-sight....
    But, while praying, couldn't a person include the verse or statement.... to the effect... "whether it's better to please God or better to please man, each man has his choice and will stand before you, O Lord... but in honor and glory to you, I pray this in Jesus name. Amen"

    Thus the prayer becomes a sermon ......and an indictment to those who determine an offence.
     
  6. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,130
    Likes Received:
    320
    What do you think?

    Is "In the Savior's name" or "In His precious name" or "in the name of the Lord" an acceptable ending?

    I think it could be if the prayer addressed about our need of salvation and dependence upon God.

    Or even "in the name of the Son of God" which is technically "keeping the rules" but everyone will know who you mean.


    HankD
     
    #6 HankD, Jul 10, 2010
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2010
  7. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 16, 2005
    Messages:
    10,407
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yet another reason that separation of state and church should not be violated. The state assembly is for all citizens and not just Christians, Jews, or any other. Eliminate mixing God in secular affairs and we keep him out of such unseemly controversy, as well as honor our nation.

    To the case at hand, the pastor knew the rules and chose to violate them. He should have been booted. If he couldn't abide by them, he should have declined in the first place.
     
  8. KenH

    KenH
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2002
    Messages:
    32,485
    Likes Received:
    0
    I was allowed to close with "In Your Name we pray. Amen".
     
  9. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2001
    Messages:
    3,134
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would have to look and see if there was a precedent of ending a prayer in Jesus Christ or not. If there was, I would have to tell them I would end it the way I end all my prayers and give them the choice to resent their offer for me to pray. Then I would ask why are we praying and to whom?
     
  10. Allan

    Allan
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2006
    Messages:
    6,888
    Likes Received:
    0
    There is NO SUCH federal or state declaration of 'separation of state and church'.

    Secondly, it is against our constitutional right to deny us as individuals our religious liberties even in office. Just because a person works for the government or is at a government function DOES NOT mean we forfeit our religious freedom to honor our God or gods. Especially when one is asked to pray.. The ONLY logical way a person can and should pray, if it is part of what is expected, should be pray in the manner and way that establishes their belief and 'way' of prayer. Yes, irregardless of religious views.

    If a person prays, then they are free to exercise their Federal and State given right to honor either 'The God' or whatever god or gods they serve. To do so in the most general way and all encompassing way possible (allowing for any and all gods to be included) but, for example - leaving out Jesus, the very core of our faith and reason for praying, establishes them as NOT praying to God at all but giving worship and honor to another for fear of offending someone else. This is false worship and to ask someone to pray leaving out their God is a direct attack against the freedom to practice our religion.
     
    #10 Allan, Jul 10, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 10, 2010
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Fallacy number one: There is no separation of church and state.

    Fallacy number two: Ending a prayer in Jesus name does not eliminate the state assembly from being for all.



    Fallacy number three: There is no unseemly controversy except on the part of those who made the decision to get rid of this pastor.

    All prayers are to be done in the name of the Son of God who is the reason we have the right to petition God in the first place. All other prayers are inappropriate. And given that prayers have been given in the name of Christ in state assemblies and congressional meetings since the founding of this country.
     
  12. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    One time I did the prayer for everyone at a potluck, and they never asked to do it again. It must have been because I used the name of Jesus in my prayer. I've noticed that no one else ever uses his name in prayer at these potlucks. If I don't like the generic prayer that someone uses, I just quietly do my own prayer before eating. People are not as offended by the name "God" as they are with the name "Jesus."
     
  13. Athanasian Creed

    Athanasian Creed
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2003
    Messages:
    75
    Likes Received:
    0
    And (W)who's (N)name was it in - Allah, Krishna, Zeus or Jesus?? That was an all-encompassing, no offense closing.

    Reminds me of a movie i watched the other week where a woman was teaching a girl about Biblical things, one being prayer. She said (paraphrasing) "And make sure at the end of your prayer you say "in Jesus Name i pray" 'cos that's like the stamp that makes sure our prayer reaches heaven" I was amazed that was included in a secular movie and said a hearty "amen" to myself when i heard that.

    Christians are commanded to pray in Jesus Name. No offense to you, but i would have refused to pray if i couldn't pray in His Name.

    No compromise - btw, i read that Ravi Zacharias capitulated in using Jesus Name during a National Day of Prayer event a few years ago -

    http://truedsicernment.com/2008/04/...of-jesus-during-national-day-of-prayer-event/

    Very, very sad - the ONLY Name in which salvation is found is not used for fear of offending! Heavens, the VERY GOSPEL is an offense to them that are perishing. Yet we have even leading Christian apologists giving in to pressure.

    God help us!!!



    Ray :tear:
     
  14. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Why does there have to be a prayer at all? Simply have a moment of silence to where all in attendance can pray/observe in the manner in which they see fit. There would be no offense to anyone there.

    I don't understand the axe we Christians grind over Christ in the public square. Agreed, there is no such thing as "Separation of Church and State." That is a made up philosephy by the media, plain and simple.

    However, this is a nation that was founded in large part on religious FREEDOM. Yes, our founding fathers were largely Christian as is well documented, but they also fought and died for, among other things, religious freedom. So no, a Jew or Agnostic or Atheist person should not have to sit through a Christ centered prayer in a public forum. Would you like to be forced to sit through a Muslim prayer or a Jewish prayer? I would think not. I wouldn't.

    Saw a documentary last night where an atheist was invited to live with a Christian family for a month. The show's intent was simply to film the interaction between the two "faiths" or lack thereof. At one point, the atheist brought up the argument that the word "In God We Trust" should be removed from our money. She said, "What if you as a Christian were forced to use money that said, "There Is No God." The Christian wouldn't concede the very simple point that he would not like that. His response: "If you don't like it, then leave!"

    Give me a break. We Christians are our own worst enemies sometimes. Christ never mandated our acknowledgement or worship of Him, and neither should be as Christians mandate it to a society that doesn't either.

    Just my two cents.
     
  15. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Wow!.........
     
  16. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Explain your "Wow" Rev. Please state what your feelings would be if you were present and the only prayer given gave thanks to Allah or to Mother Earth or what have you. I believe a moment of silence should be observed and nothing more. I as a Christian should not impose my belief on others as that is not what Jesus would have done.
     
  17. Jon-Marc

    Jon-Marc
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2007
    Messages:
    2,752
    Likes Received:
    0
    Since Jesus is the ONLY Mediator between God and man, then I say let them suffer through hearing His name used properly instead of only as profanity as too many use it.

    Actually, Jesus DID impose the truth of His words on others. He chased the people out of the temple who were dealing buying and selling. He said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." He did not say, "Believe whatever you want. As long as you are sincere, I will forgive you."
     
    #17 Jon-Marc, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2010
  18. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    I ask again...what if we lived in a society in which it was not the name of Christ which was exalted, but another. Would you like it? Good night nurse, when did we as Christians decide it was our right to impose our beliefs on everyone else? Where is that example for us in Scripture? Where is our example to do that in Christ's teachings?
     
  19. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, he did drive the irreverent out of the temple. But again, it was out of the Temple, God's House. He did NOT drive them out of the local governmental institution or the local market. Apples to oranges.
     
    #19 Jason Garrett, Jul 14, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 14, 2010
  20. Jason Garrett

    Jason Garrett
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2004
    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    0
    And Jon, I am not asking us to water down the gospel. I believe with all of my heart Jesus is the way, truth, and the life. However, it is not my right to impose that belief on others. It is their choice.

    I ask again...how would you feel if someone forced a muslim prayer on the chamber of that governmental assembly? I think you would have a problem with it, as would I. That being the case, to think it OK to impose our acknowledgement of Christ in our lives on those who do not share that view would be hypocritcal.
     

Share This Page

Loading...