Pastoral Authority

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Preacher Nathan Knight, Apr 17, 2003.

  1. Preacher Nathan Knight

    Preacher Nathan Knight
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    178
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am interested in hearing about the kind of role your pastor plays in your church. I know there are several different opinions and this may be a dead horse, but I havent been here that long so I do not know what is or what isnt. In my church, the pastor is the final authority over the local assembly as long as he is biblical and just in his decisions. He of course does the preaching but always leaves the pulpit open to other called Men of God to preach also. How much authority does the pastor have in your church?
     
  2. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    Preacher!
    Here's the way I like it to be known! I tell a certain committee(say, a Youth Pastor Search) that they have total control over the search! But I also make it known that I have total control over the committee--they may control the search but I control the committee--the final authority!

    Unfortunately in a good majority of our SBC churches it does not happen this way--but that's my goal wherever I preach and pastor--of being the overseer of that particular congregation. I point out bibical passages and if they don't like it--its simple--if they don't like it that sends me a signal that they are rebels against authority.

    I don't have that control over certain committees just yet--but with time and shepherding I believe it will come. Pray for me!

    Blackbird
     
  3. dianetavegia

    dianetavegia
    Expand Collapse
    Guest

    Yup... just like Blackbird said!

    I'm the Chairwoman of the New Member Inclusion Committee which is part of the Women's Ministry Committee. Everything we decide is cleared by Brother Alan before we do anything. He just approved my picnic plans this week and even offered to have the church provide some things I was having families bring. Neat! I LOVE OUR PASTORS!

    Diane
     
  4. Sularis

    Sularis
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2000
    Messages:
    940
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOah there blackbird

    Pastors have authority in the arena concerning
    preaching - and counselling - as long as you
    stay Biblical

    However in the arenas of finance, staffing, and other stuff - no way!

    Whoever would be the greatest - should be the least

    The Pastor is the ultimate servant position

    The instant you start saying whatever you say goes - is the instant you've stopped being Biblical

    The church universal - and the church local make the decisions.

    There is no Biblical proof that I've seen for a single HUMAN authority over a church - but rather a group of elders who preached the Word - and that these elders were CHOSEN by the church - and REPLACED by the church


    Ive gotten toasted by too many pastors to solidly trust a single one of the whole lot of ya.
     
  5. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    It is mostly like Blackbird said in our church, but the pastor does not control the finances, or who the other staff is. Everyone opperates in the ministry without the pastor having to be apart of everything(such as the womne's ministry if we had one, or the jail ministry which we do have), but they all report to him, he has authroity over anything going by the naem of our church, but allows others to do their part in leadership of those ministries.
     
  6. Frogman

    Frogman
    Expand Collapse
    <img src="http://www.churches.net/churches/fubc/Fr
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2001
    Messages:
    5,492
    Likes Received:
    0
    I agree with most of your post Sularis, except the quoted excerpt, how does the 'universal' church excercise the said authority?

    In our church the pastor makes recommendations and is strong in what he believes, but the authority in all decisions is left to the church, the same is with the deacons, they are not a ruling body, but a serving body or part of the church, these too make recommendations, but the authority must rest in the church body.

    As far as calling someone for an appointment (we do not have a youth pastor position available); the pastor usually gives appointments, yet this is not without the understanding that the church is able to refuse the said appointment of any who would be called to preach among us.

    In certain cases when a church is straying or has strayed off the path then I think a pastor ought to exert a stronger leadership role. This is shown by J.R. Graves who being called by a church who had moved into a modern position having a sewing room, a nursery, etc. in the church, he told them these things must go or he would not come. These things went.

    All must be held accountable to the Biblical position pastors, deacons and the church body alike.

    Bro. Dallas
     
  7. IfbReformer

    IfbReformer
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2002
    Messages:
    708
    Likes Received:
    0
    I Peter 5:2-4(NIV)
    "2Be shepherds of God's flock that is under your care, serving as overseers--not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not greedy for money, but eager to serve; 3not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. 4And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away."

    A Pastor should be a shepherd - not a lord.

    A Pastor should lead by example, not by compulsion.

    In a very limited amount of circumstances the Pastor may need to act in a more aggressive manner - but this should not be the pattern his ministry.

    IFBReformer
     
  8. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    "What we need in this theatre of action is one solitary man that will tell us this can be done and that can't be done! Its the only way to win this war!"--General George S. Patton

    A church without a head is dead! A church with more than one head is a freak! Sure, in a spiritual sense the Lord Jesus Christ is in ultimate control--but I believe that in the physical sense that the pastor should be livin' so close to the Lord Jesus Christ, he should be so in tune with the Lord Jesus that when people fall under his leadership in every aspect of church life--be it in the preachin' service or in a silly finance committee meeting--in a physical sense--its as if they are at the same time falling under the spiritual leadership of the Lord Jesus Christ!!

    A church without a head is dead! A church with more than one head is a freak!! Did I say that once before!??

    Your Southern Baptist preachin' buddy,
    Blackbird
     
  9. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Head of my church is Jesus. I, as an undershepherd, play a very limited role. And others each of differing roles as the Spirit has gifted them.

    Decisions affecting the body are made by the body. It's called congregational government.

    Ego trip pastors are not for me. :rolleyes:
     
  10. RTB

    RTB
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    A church without a head is dead! A church with more than one head is a freak!! Did I say that once before!??

    Your Southern Baptist preachin' buddy,
    Blackbird


    Blackbird
    Are you the only person in the church led by the Holy Spirit? Do you quote Patton from the pulpit? The only head of any church is Jesus. Just because you were called to preach does not mean that you have the exclusive ability to live your life close as possible to our Lord Jesus. Nor does being called to preach mean that you have the final authority in the Church. Are you the only member of that Church, is that your family buried in the cemetary, how deep do your roots run in that church? Spiritually speaking, you do not even have the final authority there either. Because I will listen to you preach and I will read my Bible with you, I will be prayed up and you will have to convince me that you are truly led to preach the Word, every time you step into the pulpit. I will not be led by blind faith in any man. That is what you are telling the members of your Church. They are so ignorant and blind to the working of the Holy Spirit in their lives that they have to be led, because without a Pastor to guide their every step they would be completely and totally lost. Silly finance committee? One of our deacons managed a multi-million dollar company until he retired, his advice on financial matters is always sincere and informative and he is one of the most sincere Christians I have ever met. Now suppose that the Pastor doesn't agree with him on a money matter and for no particular reason but maybe he is having a bad day and doesn't really want to hear about it. Now theoretically, and according to you, every Pastor should live his life so close to Christ that it is not possible for him to have a bad day and a bad decision is beyond him? Think about it. You are a servant of the Church and to lead, first you must be willing to follow.
    Brother Blackbird, I have read many of your posts and 99% of the time I am in complete agreement with you. This reply is not intended to denigrate the responsibilities and authority that a Pastor has. Your calling is an awesome responsibility, people are counting on you to bring Gods Word to them in a way that God wants it given. You are there for problems that your members have, a willing shoulder and stern disciplinarian if needed. A leader, a teacher, a friend, a comforter, a confidante, and a man of God who is an example to other men of how they should live their lives and conduct themselves. And so much more. I think you need to give a little recognition to the other positions in the church and the fact that God put those people there for a reason. A church does not begin and end with the Pastor.

    In Christ

    Ronnie
     
  11. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    The pastor is described as a manager (1 Tim 3) and someone who has charge over you (1 Thess 5). He is given this instruction and personal bad experiences do not exempt us from the biblical model. I believe in congregational government -- that is why I am a Baptist; but the congregation calls a pastor to lead them and to have charge over them. Let's not abandon the biblical model because of our own desire for unbiblical individualism or because of some pastor who sinned in his leadership.

    Such charge does not mean lording it over the flock, as has been pointed out. It does not mean autocracy such as some have used. It does mean leadership.
     
  12. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Some interesting words have emerged describing the pastoral ministry.

    "Leadership"

    "Lording"

    "Overseer"

    "In charge"

    "Obey"

    "Shepherd"

    Think that the English language, in all its vagueries, can "lead" us to some really wrong conclusions.

    Remember my motto, "Beat them sheep". :rolleyes:
     
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
    Expand Collapse
    <b>Moderator</b>
    Moderator

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    On this we agree, but I can't help but wonder what your point is. Are you disagreeing that the biblical charge to manage, rule well, lead, have charge over, etc. applies to the modern day pastor? Are you suggesting that the modern day pastor is somehow exempted from these commands? It almost sounds as if you are suggesting that the pastor abdicate his biblical role in favor of modern ideas about how a church should be run.

    I am curious as to what your view of pastoral leadership is in view of these biblical passages that describe it.
     
  14. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2000
    Messages:
    29,402
    Likes Received:
    12
    Clarification - The pastor leads as a shepherd. He sets a course and direction, but why will sheep follow? Confidence, trust, respect - NOT because he "demands" obedience, runs or micro-manages everything.

    There NEEDS to be a reaction against the abusive pastor who beats the flock with dictatorial power and claims Heb 13:7,17 means he has total control!

    We have pastors (ifb) in our town who:</font>
    • Make all decisions; vote of congregation is "advisory only"</font>
    • Control church checkbook and spend money where they want</font>
    • Must "approve" when members miss church for vacation, work, who they marry (not kidding)</font>
    • Set legalistic standards for all members and even visitors attending</font>
    • Establish criteria for what/who is "spiritual" (not right with God if you aren't bus calling on Saturday or own a TV)</font>
    Brother, I grew up thinking this autocratic, dictatorial position was "leadership". 33+ years in the full-time ministry has made me a totally DIFFERENT kind of leader.

    And I wouldn't go across the street to spit on that kind of pastor. :eek:
     
  15. Molly

    Molly
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2000
    Messages:
    2,303
    Likes Received:
    0
    Our pastor/teacher is the one responsible for the teaching...he preaches the word and serves the church. We have 5 other paid elders and 7-8 unpaid elders. They are equal in that together they make the decisions for the church,lead,and teach all the equipping hour classes(which is Sunday School). The deacons serve in areas of finances,widows,leading some ministries like that.

    We have others that teach Wed night classes...but mostly elders do the teaching.
     
  16. Wygal

    Wygal
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Messages:
    137
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dr. Bob - I agree completely here:

    "Clarification - The pastor leads as a shepherd. He sets a course and direction, but why will sheep follow? Confidence, trust, respect - NOT because he "demands" obedience, runs or micro-manages everything.

    There NEEDS to be a reaction against the abusive pastor who beats the flock with dictatorial power and claims Heb 13:7,17 means he has total control!

    We have pastors (ifb) in our town who:
    Make all decisions; vote of congregation is "advisory only"
    Control church checkbook and spend money where they want
    Must "approve" when members miss church for vacation, work, who they marry (not kidding)
    Set legalistic standards for all members and even visitors attending
    Establish criteria for what/who is "spiritual" (not right with God if you aren't bus calling on Saturday or own a TV)

    Brother, I grew up thinking this autocratic, dictatorial position was "leadership". 33+ years in the full-time ministry has made me a totally DIFFERENT kind of leader.

    And I wouldn't go across the street to spit on that kind of pastor."

    This guy was just getting started at the place we left, and I'm reasonably sure that it will progressively get worse. It's really sad that some people believe this is right.
     
  17. blackbird

    blackbird
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2002
    Messages:
    11,898
    Likes Received:
    2
    I've got some sheep needin' shearin'--is that permissable in ya'lls brain??

    Blackbird
     
  18. JN1633

    JN1633
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2002
    Messages:
    24
    Likes Received:
    0
    Amen DR Bob ! Amen ! Amen! I have just left a church where the pastor was a complete dictator and actually made the statement " My staff and my church, do no question me !"
     
  19. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    Blackbird, et al:

    I am an Air Force officer (something I'm not necessarily proud to admit; I started out as an enlisted guy, and there are days I'd go back to being enlisted in a heart beat--but God has called me to the point that I'm at, and who am I to argue that?).

    The one word that I haven't yet heard in this thread, and that I very rarely--VERY rarely--hear from other military officers when describing "leader":

    SERVANT

    Any pastor/leader who is the "head" of his church is usurping the role of Jesus as the head of the church. Plain and simple. There can't be two heads, as Blackbird has pointed out. So y'all figure out who the head is, and go from there.
     
  20. Scott J

    Scott J
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2001
    Messages:
    8,462
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you honor Christ as the head of your church, serve your church in a whole-hearted sacrificial way, and rightly divide the Word of truth... the shearin' will take care of itself. Whose sheep do you think they are anyway?
     

Share This Page

Loading...