Pastoral qualifications question

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by NaasPreacher (C4K), Dec 28, 2003.

  1. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    If a pastor is arrested for public intoxication is he disqualified from the ministry?

    What if he is not really "given to much wine" but has a medical problem for which wine was prescribed?

    What if he does not inform his church but tries to keep it covered up?

    This is an inquiry. Please do not personalise these questions to any individual.
     
  2. aefting

    aefting
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    How could he not be "given to much wine" if he became intoxicated and arrested for public drunkenness? He certainly is not blameless.

    How can some of us not personalise these questions when we know of a prominent Christian leader who just resigned his ministry over exactly these things?

    This incident has made me realize once again that no man is above temptation or falling into grievious sin. We need to pray for our pastors and we need to pray for ourselves in this regard.


    Prov. 20:1
    Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.


    Andy
     
  3. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    Thnanks for being descreet Andy - I do not want any names to appear here. I was troubled by this and wanted some input, without naming names. I agree that this is wrong and that the resignation was essential.

    I would apprecaite anyone else who knows the situation to follow Andy's lead and not name names.
     
  4. gb93433

    gb93433
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    A person is only disqualified when God disqualifies Him. Moses killed a man. Gis still used him to lead His people.

    I would say that when a pastor is intoxicated in public or any other time he should be confronted and be expected to get help. I have known one pastor that nearly lost his marriage and the church required him to get help. They stood by him and encouraged him to do what is right. That same man today does not even look the same. God is using him in a great way. But the compassion he has for people is incredible because of what he has experienced.

    A friend of mine was pastoring a church when he found out that his wife was participating in pornography on the internet. One time I came to preach at his church and told him that something was wrong with his wife. Well he found out later. She even met someone else in a foreign country. He though she was somewhere else. He found out and told her to get help. She didn't and she left the home and her children. He gave the church his resignation and they refused it. They told him that they needed him and now he needs them. They told him to take whatever time off he needed and they would fill the pulpit and continue to pay him. My friend is a changed man. He has since remarried and is very diferent. He better understand God's compasssion. His preaching is very different.

    Sometime the pastor needs the same help someone else might need instead of the boot. If we are looking for perfect churches don't join any because we will ruin them. Just as the pastor is there to encourage the people, the people must strive to do the same to the pastor. We are a team working together.

    The town where my friend is knows about his failed marriage. Due to the way the church handled the matter the church has increased a lot. People come because they have seen how a church takes care of its own. That's love!
     
  5. aefting

    aefting
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    Right but in this case God has disqualified him because he is (1) not blameless and (2) given to much wine. These are God's qualifications; if a man does not meet them he has been effectively disqualified by God.

    Moses was not a pastor and did not need to meet the NT qualifications for that office. Just because a man does not meet the qualifications for a pastor or deacon does not mean that God cannot use that man in another role.

    Andy
     
  6. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Immediate dismissal. NOT allowed to resign, but public discipline of the Church and then a warning to other churches, lest it be covered up and he goes on to another parish.

    Plug in "child molester" and you have the Catholic dilemma for covering up and moving priests on without public disclosure and censure.

    THEN, get the brother help! You who are strong work with him in detox and AA and don't let him fall and Satan destroy him.

    "God is more interested in the man than in the ministry." -- Dr. Bob
     
  7. Groves1611

    Groves1611
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    Question:
    What exactly does it mean to be "blameless".
    If my study is right, then there would certainly be NO man that has ever "looked upon a woman and lusted after her" that is blameless.
     
  8. gb93433

    gb93433
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    Right but in this case God has disqualified him because he is (1) not blameless and (2) given to much wine. These are God's qualifications; if a man does not meet them he has been effectively disqualified by God.

    Moses was not a pastor and did not need to meet the NT qualifications for that office. Just because a man does not meet the qualifications for a pastor or deacon does not mean that God cannot use that man in another role.

    Andy
    </font>[/QUOTE]I agree. The man should disqualify himself before anyone else does. If he does then he is humble and will probably get the needed help. Seldom does a humble man ever get into serious trouble. He knows how weak he really is.

    I believe that if we went right down the line then many more would be disqualified.

    I know of many whose children are not under control I know of many that eat too much too. I know of many many more that are not making disciples. That is the greatest sin in the church in America. We simply are not making disciples. If we did we would not have so many dropouts and so few weak in faith. Over and over I have seen those who are being discipled rise up and begin to share their faith and disciples others. All within a short amount of time. A man who can make disciples doesn't need loads of services and preaching. He needs men and women to pray with and to encourage him. .

    The very thing that underlies leadership is the fact that others are following. If nobody is following then don't make someone a pastor or leader in a church by giving him a title.

    Have you ever known a church to inquire about 1 Tim. 3:7, "And he must have a good reputation with those outside the church, so that he will not fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.'

    I was in business before becoming a pastor long enough to know that there are some pastors who are laughed at by the community because they expect discounts and other favors that others don't ask for. A friend of mine owned a Bible bookstore for 28 years and told me that pastors are the worst at paying their bills at the Bible bookstore. A friend of mine was pastoring a church where several people came each week to mow his lawn and to make his yard look good. Just imagine what kind of a testimony that was.

    I remember well when my neighbor had heard that we were moving and told me what a great neighbor we were. That made me feel good. His wife told me how glad she was because he was not a Christian and did not like church. But we changed that some. I did have opportunities to share the good news with him. The role of the pastor is not just within the church. I did a lot of funeral outside of the church as well. I visited non-church people. People come to Christ whenn they hear the gospel. Most of the time they hear it best from people they know best. Why shouldn't it be the Christians who show them what a real follower of Jesus looks like.
     

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