Pastorless Church

Discussion in 'Fundamental Baptist Forum' started by GrannyGumbo, Apr 25, 2007.

  1. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo
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    We are a very small assembly who is without a pastor at the moment. Someone has said we cannot be a church without one. We are a scriptural church who did have a pastor but unfortunate circumstances happened and the entire congregation withdrew from him and assemble together elsewhere.

    I know we're not actively looking for another pastor, but should the Lord send one, especially someone with a burden against the false teachings of the Oneness doctrine, then that'd be great. Of course, we prayerfully hope our former pastor (who is also my son.n.law) will soften his hardened heart.

    Any advice, thoughts, comments, verses, no matter what, would be very much appreciated. Thanks a bunch!
     
  2. exscentric

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    Off the top, if you are a Scriptural church why did you leave without dealing with a pastor that holds to false doctrine. The church is the people and they should deal with the pastor not run away from him. Of course we have little information and there may be a good reason why the people left?????

    Trust the situation works it out through prayer and soon. The church is about the only source of peace in some people's lives and it needs to be stable as possible :thumbs:

    I might add that oneness doctrine is one of the hardest to combat since they use the same verses we do a lot and just give them a little different twist.
     
  3. tinytim

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    If the entire congregation was against the pastor, why not just get rid of the pastor and stay where you were... Then look for an interim pastor to heal the congregation. Then begin looking for a permanant pastor...

    Something tells me there is more to this than you share, but that's OK.
    A church must have (or at least be actively looking for) a pastor. (or elders if elder led)

    I think down deep, you know this.
     
  4. Hope of Glory

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    Tim, as a rule, I think you are correct, but I have seen exceptions. Those exceptions have been assemblies that wanted a pastor, but were not going to take the first one who came along. I know of one such assembly that was led by the women (long story, but there were no men to step up and take the helm, even temporarily) who did a good job of teaching the children. The reason they were without a pastor was because their pastor move out of the parsonage in the middle of the night, and took all the appliances, etc. with him. They had accepted him because they had been pastorless for a couple of years. Now, they have a godly pastor, after waiting for two more years, and they are thriving within the community, but are still without mature men to lead. (You would have to encounter the male mindset out in the bush here to understand the dynamics of the situation.)

    That being said, sometimes leaving is the best way of "dealing" with the issue, particularly if the issue has been addressed, and other circumstances prevent anything else. I know of one assembly that went through a fight like this (although not over the oneness issue), and it came down to a small majority invoking an almost unknown clause in the charter that required selling the property and dispensing it to missionaries.
     
  5. PastorSBC1303

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    I don't have any advice. I know this must be terribly hard on you. I just wanted to say I will say a prayer for you and the situation.
     
  6. tinytim

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    Yeah, that is what I meant to say... They are praying for one, and keeping their eyes open..

    Granny, I am praying too. And from your OP, it sounds like you want a man of God. That is great.
     
  7. GrannyGumbo

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    Yes, there is a great deal more - almost too complicated to explain. We met in his home, only numbering 8. Liberty also has a street ministry. When it was realized he'd become dictator, my husband and the other man did have many talks with him, to no avail. He and our daughter told us we had to make a choice. We chose to leave.

    Several years ago, my entire family of (then) 16 were members of the same church. As some here know, our youngest boy at the age of 26 got caught-up in the Oneness doctrine here and it's been a rough haul to say the least, but we all stood by him (tho' not attending his services and still combating the heresy whenever the opportunity arises).

    Everything was fine (as well as could be under the circumstances) between all of us until a certain street evangelist came thru' and slowly convinced our son.n.law that it was wrong of us to even be talking to our son. He was not a member of our assembly (tho' he claimed to be) but we did support him as we could. Some of us had doubts about this man but did not want to rock the boat.

    So about a year ago, they decided it was best we forsake our son and gave us the choice, staying with them or becoming the off-scoured. We chose the latter. I have not forsaken my daughter, but she has turned her back on me and her daddy and her siblings. They have since moved off, yet still proclaim to be the pastor here and we aren't the church. It's a big mess. The street evangelist continually spouts off on crusaderadio.com all kinds of hate and last night he stated we were a mockery - not a church, for we had no pastor. He said we were rebellious, came against our pastor, and stand guilty before God.

    Well, as you can see, it's complicated and sorry if I sound unclear. I simply wondered where the scripture is that says we cannot be a church without a pastor. I'd also like for you to keep us in your prayers if the Lord so leads. Our son is saved and was a deacon at the time of his seduction. The Lord has been chastizing him for years and my fear is that He will call our boy Home early. Wonderful for him, but horrible for the ones left behind (including 3 sons) who love him. This area is completely saturated with unbiblical tongues, carnal baptists and pseudo-christians.

    Thanks again for your thoughts, and I appreciate the private messages.
     
  8. tinytim

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    Where 2 or 3 are gathered Jesus will be in the midst...
    You don't need a dictator.
    Organize the church (if it has not been done) Constitute it, dedicate it to Christ, and pray for a man of God to come to you.
     
  9. GrannyGumbo

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    Yes, we were organized a few years ago and continue to meet regularly. We love our son.n.law and daughter, miss them, and are very saddened by all that's happened. Of course, I tend to blame this other man for much of it, for we tried to tell Allen that he was a wolf in sheep's clothing.
     
  10. amity

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    I am so sorry for your situation, and will be praying that the Lord will send you a pastor.

    I perhaps shouldn't jump in not having read the other answers you have gotten, I am in a bit of a rush. I am just very surprised to hear that the church withdrew from the pastor and somehow he wound up with your building?!?!? Isn't that just the opposite of what usually happens? In my church the congregation has been in one place for many generations and the pastors may come and go and every few decades. Really he is just a member like any other, but if it came to a parting of the ways there is absolutely not a shadow of a doubt that the congregation would keep the church building. The usual procedure is to just have a vote to call another pastor, and that is it.

    Is there any chance of getting the building back?

    Meanwhile I have known of quite a few churches that have gone for years without pastors, and the Lord has blessed them richly in the meantime. In the end of course the Lord sent someone to pastor the church.
     
    #10 amity, Apr 25, 2007
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  11. tinytim

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    Amity, I was confused also until I read this... Now it makes sense.:wavey:
     
  12. GrannyGumbo

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    Hiya amity - our "building" was his home, so of course it was feasible for us to leave it. Had we been meeting in our own home, I'm sure my husband would've asked him to leave. The Sunday we left I had asked for prayer for my wayward son (nothing unusual, as I've been doing so for several years), but this particular Sunday his stark answer was "for what purpose" and he commenced to yelling at us for having anything to do with the boy (tho' he himself had until he was persuaded otherwise by the street evangelist). There were other extenuating circumstances prior to this incident but that's what finalized our departure. The others attempted to go for awhile but it continued to get worse, so they come here to our home now. We are a very small group with only occasional visitors. Our son.n.law never took a dime from us as a church. He's self-employed as a carpenter and is in PA at the moment. We've not heard from them other than over the airwaves when he shares the broadcast with the street evangelist.
     
  13. AAA

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    I can offer no advice concerning the topic of a pastor, but pray, pray and more prayer......Let GOD guide your church..........

    However, These sites have been helpful to me in witnessing to the Oneness Pentecostal groups....And, how do you know about the Oneness pentecostals?

    This may help witness against the false teachings of "Oneness pentecostalism".

    http://www.thriceholy.net/opf.html

    http://www.christiandefense.com/oneness.htm

    www.carm.org/oneness.htm

    http://www.spiritualabuse.org

    this is very helpful............
    http://www.spiritualabuse.org/books/oneness.html

    I have read the books by Gregory Boyd (former Oneness Pentecostal) and E. Calvin Beisner...Very good books....

    How do you know about the Oneness Pentecostals?

    May GOD bless you.
     
    #13 AAA, Apr 25, 2007
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 25, 2007
  14. Bro. James Reed

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    My home church was constituted in 1974 with a Pastor and about 20 members. This Pastor resigned in 1976 and was found in adultery and excluded from the church, and his credentials stripped, in 1977. The church went from 1976-1983 without a Pastor. That's 7 years without a Pastor. Thankfully, the church had 5 Deacons during that time and several Ministers came and preached for them. They did have a sort of interim Pastor for the last couple years, though he felt his calling was to help struggling churches, rather than Pastoring himself. The church called several men to Pastor, but most were already committed elsewhere. The next Pastor served from 1983-1985 but had to resign for health reasons. The next pastor served from 1985-1990 and again from 1994-1999. We were forced to exclude him and strip his credentials after he resigned in 1999 and began attending a different denomination. The next Pastor served from 1999-2002, and the final Pastor served since 2003.

    Following the reasoning that a pastorless church is no church, then anytime a Pastor resigns, for whatever reason, including health, accepting a new pastorate, etc, then the church ceases to exist. How then can they call another Pastor if they are no longer a church? Wouldn't they have to re-Constitute?

    A church needs a Pastor to lead the flock, just as sheep need a shepherd. However, just because a Pastor leaves does not make them cease to be a church anymore than shepherdless sheep cease to be a flock. A flock in such case is liable to wander aimlessly and not see specific goals, nor move towards them together, which is why we have Pastors to begin with, but they are still a flock.

    I do not encourage churches to go too long without a Pastor, and a Pastorless church should always be looking for a new leader.

    Losing a Pastor, especially on bad terms, can be a devastating thing for a church. I pray that you all will find someone new and the Lord will bless you and him.

    James
     
  15. I Am Blessed 24

    I Am Blessed 24
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    Hi Granny! :godisgood:

    This has to be heart-wrenching for you to choose between your daughter and your son.

    One thing I would say is never forsake your children. Remember the Prodigal Son.

    Let your conversation be without covetousness; and be content with such things as ye have: for he hath said, I will never leave thee, nor forsake thee.
    Hebrews 13:5

    We should do the same with our children.

    In an ideal world, our children would never do wrong, but we do not live in an ideal world. Our children do wrong and sin, just like we do.

    Love you and praying God will send you a Godly pastor, until then, like tinytim said:

    Where two or three are gathered, there am I in the midst of them.
    Matthew 18:20
     
  16. GrannyGumbo

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    Thanks so much for that, Sue. xo

    AAA, you asked me "How do you know about the Oneness Pentecostals?" Because this area is saturated in it and is responsible for a lot of heartaches in many families - mine included. We got to know about it real well after our son fell into the mess, having gone to a "Bible study" thinking he could show them a thing or two - but he wasn't prepared for what he found.

    I have Oneness 'apostolics' living across the road, on either side and behind me. This particular farming community is heavily populated with them and they meet in a multi-million dollar "Tab" over behind me. The sect out here is the most legalistic, but there are many others more lenient scattered over the Parish. Their bishop here has excessive control and power over the people he pastors. He uses extreme mind control tactics to control those under him and causes them to have a sense of helplessness without him. He rules them with messages of fear and fiery indignation and warnings of the wrath of God to fall on those who don't submit to his will in order to get what he wants from them.

    The odd thing is, the street-evangelist who somehow persuaded our pastor to turn into a dictator, is much like this Oneness man. I find myself wondering if my daughter and son.n.law have been brainwashed too like my son. They are with a group of anabaptists now in PA who I've heard many unsavoury things about.
     
  17. AAA

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    Your town sounds so much like the towns of Orangefield, Bridgecity, Port Authur, Orange and Beumont, Tx. It also has lost of Oneness Pentecostals and they talk as if they are the only ones going to heaven and all trinitarians are lost, but I am so thankful that GOD has placed them in my life so that I be used as a witness of the love of GOD and salvation by GRACE unto them...

    I hope that my links was of some help to you.....
     
  18. GrannyGumbo

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    Yes, thank-you AAA for those links...I'd been to all but the first one. And read every book under the sun, ordered every tract I could find (not many), on the subject and contacted as many folks as God put in my path to talk to about the oneness. It's been an ongoing battle since 1999 and I will not stop til the Lord takes me Home. I had one tell me I am their "perpetual thorn", lol. But I do try to show unwavering kindness and boldness without backing down, altho' their circular arguing gets old.

    I asked this particular street preacher along with all the others that have come thru' to please talk to my son...to no avail. Most of 'em would rather hide behind a microphone and blast the tongue-talkers over the airwaves. This certain 'evangelist' (and I do use the term loosely) berates 'em on his broadcast yet says he has spoken in Biblical tongues. Personally, I believe tongues have ceased.
     
  19. bapmom

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    Hi Granny! Always good to see you! But Im sorry all of this is happening to you guys.

    I'll be praying for your city, and for your church's situation. It sounds to me as if your little group is the church. Just because a man claims to be the pastor of it does not mean that he IS the pastor......that's up to the congregation, right? Officially vote him out (if you haven't already), officially call a business meeting according to the church constitution, and record it in the meeting minutes. Then keep the records so there can be no legal hassles (if that's even possible), then pray for a new man for your church's pastor. You could even call an interim pastor from the group meeting in your home now. Even a small group, without it's own building is an official church.

    Praying sister! :praying:
     
  20. GrannyGumbo

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    Thank you bapmom - it's always good to see you too.
     

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