Pastors in troubles

Discussion in 'Pastoral Ministries' started by ROD A. SARMIENTO, May 3, 2003.

  1. ROD A. SARMIENTO

    ROD A. SARMIENTO
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    SECOND CHANCE, IS IT POSSIBLE?
     
  2. Jonathan

    Jonathan
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    1. Depends on the problem.

    The gravity of the problem brings a lot to bear as it will have much to do about any period of restoration.

    2. Depends on the pastor.

    Pastors who behave like the stereotypical used car salesman prior to the problem are not like to regain credibility, period. However, a pastor that had previously developed a clear reputation (and especially if the problem appears to be an isolated lapse) will have a much better chance at restoration.

    3. Depends on the congregation.

    If the congregation has been trained to believe that the pastor in question is irreplaceable is very capable of turning on ethical and moral dimes in order to maintain comfort zones.
     
  3. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    Pastors have a higher responsibility than lay persons, their life is to be above reproach. If they were immoral or dishonest they may be restored to fellowship in the Church, but as pastors they are finished. God has high standards for his pastors, man lowers them.

    There are many men in pulpits today with less character than some of their janitors. Sad, but true. Especially when fellow pastors condone men of low character in pulpits.

    God forgives sin, but we are still accountable for poor stewardship of our talents. A pastor who abuses his position or disgraces his position by immorality or dishonesty is not fit.

    1 Timothy 3: 1This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
    2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to each;
    3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy
    of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
    4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
    5( For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
    6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
    7 Moreover he must have a good report of
    them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

    Many preachers dodge the blameless in this passage like trying to dodge a pothole in ND.

    [​IMG]
     
  4. Grasshopper

    Grasshopper
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    God has high standards for his pastors


    I disagree!
     
  5. BaptistAndy

    BaptistAndy
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    Grasshopper, without being disrespectful, can I ask why you disagree? Please give some scriptures....

    Andy
     
  6. KPBAP

    KPBAP
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    Yet, we must never allow to think that pastors are superhuman nor should we put them on a pedestal. They are human like us and at times fail and fall. There are times that the congregation may need to "minister" to the pastor. The dynamic at each church and how the pastor views his own "position" varies greatly.
     
  7. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    It is not surprising that Grasshopper would disagree. Too many Baptists feel God has no standards and only "legalists" call for holy and separated lives.

    I'm not going to waste my time quoting scripture this am. but if one studies the Bible with a receptive heart and spirit one will find that God does not only excpect high standards, he demands high standards.

    A holy and righteous God that bought teaches that the Lord's church is the bride of Christ

    Ephesians 5:25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.


    Explain to this doumb old man, who believes God is Holy, how the Lord's church can be without spot or blemish if the pastor is a low life and lacks ethics, integrity, and honesty?

    I have no idea what "troubles" are being questioned here but there are some "troubles" which any ethical pastor would resign over.
     
  8. Molly

    Molly
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    There are some things that do disqualify a man from pastoring...he sould step down or be asked to resign if it is a biblical requirement that has not been met. I respect greatly men who see that they are not qualified and step down. Maybe there are things they should work on and get right with the Lord...they could pastor again. But,all in all,I feel a pastor/elder has a one time shot at doing it right...they can always be forgiven when true repentance has taken place,but I do not feel they should be a leader in a church again.
     
  9. ROD A. SARMIENTO

    ROD A. SARMIENTO
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    If Pastors who happened to be victims of evil circumstances, will no longer be fitted to be restored (after the same had repented, of course)in the "same bench", how can we say then that God is a God of opportunities?
     
  10. j_barner2000

    j_barner2000
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    Lets throw real circumstances in. As in the case of a friend of mine. He felt called to pastoral ministry. His wife was ok with it. After about a year she filed for a divorce. He has not remarried since, though she has. Is he disqualified from preaching? Should he consider marrying a different woman? ( it has been 10 years since the divorce and there is a widow who would make a wonderful pastor's wife...( i don't know if he is considering, but)

    It is hard to say, without knowing the situation. I would say in the above case, he is able to continue pastoring, but should probably remain single. But if the pastor cheated on his wife or... then he should offer his resignation.
    edited for spelling
     
  11. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    My Friend,

    Magandang (umaga/hapon/gabi) sa inyo!

    It is apparent that you don't feel comfortable being specific here in this forum. It is very difficult to answer this question. I believe that on some things, God is much more forgiving than man is. I'm afraid that even though God can and does separate sin "as far as the east is from the west," man is not equally capable of doing so. There are some things that we as humans never forget for some reason.

    Depending on the transgression, some people in the local congregation might never be able to get past it, and therefore render your ministry (at least to them) inneffective, or cause them to make trouble in the church. I wouldn't want to bring discredit to any local church body. Perhaps a place of ministry could be found elsewhere.
     
  12. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    My Friend,

    Magandang (umaga/hapon/gabi) sa inyo!

    It is apparent that you don't feel comfortable being specific here in this forum. It is very difficult to answer this question. I believe that on some things, God is much more forgiving than man is. I'm afraid that even though God can and does separate sin "as far as the east is from the west," man is not equally capable of doing so. There are some things that we as humans never forget for some reason.

    Depending on the transgression, some people in the local congregation might never be able to get past it, and therefore render your ministry (at least to them) inneffective, or cause them to make trouble in the church. I wouldn't want to bring discredit to any local church body. Perhaps a place of ministry could be found elsewhere.
    </font>[/QUOTE]
    ==================================================
    1 Samuel 15:26And Samuel said unto Saul, I will not return with thee: for thou hast rejected
    the word of the LORD, and the LORD hath rejected thee from being king over Israel.
    27And as Samuel turned about to go away, he laid hold upon the skirt of his mantle, and it
    rent.
    28And Samuel said unto him, The LORD hath rent the kingdom of Israel from thee this day,
    and hath given it to a neighbour of thine, that is better than thou.
    29And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should
    repent.
    30Then he said, I have sinned: yet honour me now, I pray thee, before the elders of my
    people, and before Israel, and turn again with me, that I may worship the LORD thy God.
    31So Samuel turned again after Saul; and Saul worshipped the LORD.


    I suppose some of you would have forgiven Saul and let him continue to lead? God demands
    much from those he give the responsibility for the souls of others.

    This isn’t some little game here. This is the eternal destiny of souls. The pastor is responsible to
    God for those he serves. A man who is incapable of living a life above reproach has no business
    trying to lead others to do the same. Saul disobeyed God, God took the leadership position from
    him. Will he do less with the man who is to lead his bride?

    Ephesians 5:
    21Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
    22Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
    23For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is
    the saviour of the body.
    24Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in
    every thing.
    25Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
    26That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
    27That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any
    such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish
    . 28So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth
    himself.
    29For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord
    the church:
    30For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
     
  13. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Despite statements to the contrary, God DOES have high standards for pastors. I Tim 3, Titus 1 just list 20 or so for starters!

    Most men in my church could not be a pastor because of failures in these areas.

    Have a situation with a couple coaches of major college sports. Both have been fired. One admitted a problem with alcohol (and subsequent shady behavior at a frat house party); the other with sex (at strip club; gals in motel room)

    EVEN THE WORLD demands that men in authority and with great influence over young athletes live up to a higher standard.

    The coaches cried and asked for a "second chance". If I were a college president, they would not get one from me.

    Evne Slick Willy was impeached (though his liberal friends got him off). There ARE standards.
     
  14. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    Mr Brazee - relax...we don't even know what the infraction is, do we? We're trying to answer a general question here. Maybe you know more about the specifics than I do, but as far as I read, the specifics of the matter have not been disclosed. Perhaps the pastor got a ticket for speeding or something. Judging by your comments, I can truly believe you have more knowledge and experience than I do, but please don't suppose that my comments mean that I think everything can be overlooked.

    If you knew me as well as the person your last post likened me to, then you'd know that I'm heavily conservative in my views, and much more ready to agree with you than you think. And I'm well aware that this isn't a game.

    Here's a thought: What infraction do you believe this poster was talking about? Adultry? Stealing church funds? Put it on the table, because I don't think the specific infraction has been disclosed.
     
  15. Ernie Brazee

    Ernie Brazee
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    It would make a difference as to the infraction, but what I am ranting about is the pastors who commit major infractions, are forgiven by their church and continue to pastor. They have violated a sacred trust and as Saul need to be removed from their place of responsibility.

    God forgives sin, but there are also consequences for that sin. A pastor is given a sacred trust, it is not just another job.
     
  16. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
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    Then we are in agreement.

    Rodalfo A. Sarmiento, are you the pastor in question? If so, regardless of the troubles, I'll be praying for the right decision on your part.
     
  17. BaptistAndy

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    I hope I was not unclear. I, too believe that pastors answer to a higher standard than most men. I simply would like to hear from grasshopper why he/she thinks that they do not. The scriptures I asked for were, again, to be supplied by grasshopper in support of his/her stance on this subject.

    Andy
     
  18. Charlesga

    Charlesga
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    Our church was in this situation a few years ago. The pastor resigned, but the church rejected his resignation because our belief that the church should resore the wounded, not beat the wounded. He was truly broken and repented of the sins that were committed. He went on administrative leave during which he received counseling/mentoring from Christian leaders and psychologists. The issues that were being delt with went back much further than the act that was committed. In the end, he was a changed person, and had a greater understanding of God's love and grace....and I have never heard anyone preach about this with more conviction, understanding, and passion than he.

    Just because a pastor commits a sin (do we believe God rates sin???), does not mean he has lost the call to the ministry, in my opinion. If he believes God is still calling him, then he needs to be following the call. God used lots of broken people as leaders in the Bible...look at the disciples, look at David, look at Abraham....God can and does still use these people for His kingdom.

    Just my thoughts...sorry I'm not a pastor, so if I'm not suppose to post here, please forgive.

    Charles
     

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