Pastors who open the Gates of Hell

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by calvin4me, May 27, 2004.

  1. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    I believe there are too few reliable and respectful evangelist on tv these days. Nothing fills me with more disgust than when these wolves in sheep's clothing start preaching on a VERBAL "revelation" they allegedly recieved from God. They garnish thier sermons with thier own personal opinions instead of His Word. How any christian network can allow room for men like Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland is a mystery to me. I am not here discussing whether faith healings are real or not, but I am discussing the very ATTITUDE alot of these preachers of the "Faith-Word" movement are conveying.
    How often is the very name of Christ used vainly, in a mindlessly habitual and irreverent manner!
    Soloman cries out: "The FEAR [reverance] of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom, and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding."(Prov. 9:10)
    These people have no fire in thier conscience, and consider it a light thing to even dare speak on the behalf of the most Holy Spirit. What, indeed, is the most COMMON way they speak on His behalf? Simply by endorsing their books and audio/video tapes with such advertisements as, "The Holy Spirit will move and bless you by listening to these messages...", and, "God will begin working miracles in your life when you read this book." Oh really? How soon they forget that
    "But our God is in heaven; He does whatever HE pleases." (Ps.115:3)
    How many of us often have to labor in much study of the Word, praying earnestly with deep humility for the knowledge of His will? And yet these jackals propose to know His secret will at every service they conduct. And what about these overly charismatic services? Sure, we are to praise and 'sing a new song" unto the Lord, but do you ever see any true reverence in half of these "charismatic" services? What do you think? I know what He thinks: "God is to be greatly feared in the assembly of His saints; and to be held in REVERENCE by all those around Him" (Ps.89:7)
    We need a balance!
    We remember how Satan tried to temp Christ, tempting Him to turn stones into bread. In other words, be a wonder-worker! It is that very thing we see with people like Benny Hinn: dazzle the audience with signs and wonders. "It is an evil and adulterous generation that seeks a sign", says our Lord.
    Perhaps I'm being to harsh...what do think?

    [ May 27, 2004, 08:12 PM: Message edited by: calvin4me ]
     
  2. Marcia

    Marcia
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    Well, I wouldn't call TBN, which showcases a lot of these people, a Christian network. The Crouches have endorsed Oneness teachers as well as the WOF teachers. TBN even had Della Reese on and people were clapping for her all over the place (she is a minister in a New Thought church). Copeland in my area comes on every Sunday morning on a secular network (not cable), as does Osteen (another WOF teacher).

    You are not being harsh as some of the people you are referring to are false teachers and teach heresy. I posted links on another thread about them -- I think it was the "What is a heretic" thread in the Other Religions forum.

    I do not equate the charismatic movement, however, with the WOF movement. They are not the same thing, although you tend to find the WOF teachers in charismatic churches more. They Word Faith teachers are wolves in sheep's clothing and they are devouring the Lord's flock. We are warned from scripture that false teachers come from within the church, and we are seeing it.

    Even Tilton and Popoff, who were both caught defrauding their viewers and followers, are back now. :(
     
  3. mcgyver

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    I agree fully...
    The WOF movement is like a sausage skin that is stuffed full of fish.....Looks like a sausage on the outside, but just wait till you take a bite!
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    "Open the gates of hell" may be a little strong. After all, some of those mentioned may actually be born again.

    Saved or not, they are ALL a reproach on the name of our blessed Lord.
     
  5. Watchman

    Watchman
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    That is an interesting and thought-provoking post Doc. Can those that are His sheep, who hear His voice and will NOT follow a stranger, go so far away from the truth that they will believe this stuff? I must side with Marcia here.
    Does not the good tree-good fruit; bad tree-bad fruit discourse in Matthew 7 apply here?
    Just asking.
     
  6. rsr

    rsr
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    It is sad to think that, for millions of people, what is presented by TBN and other WoF evangelists is considered mainstream Christianity -- God as the ATM in the sky.
     
  7. WallyGator

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    Just like in the secular world, if you seek to find a "religious situation" that fits what YOU want, YOU can easily find it. Then you can do all the things you want or have been doing and still say you are Christian. I just read a study by a guy named Hathaway at one of SBC seminaries that his research group did for several years. Basically, they found that 75% of SBC church members could not meet the requirements of salvation. [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  8. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    To Dr. Bob Grifin:

    Perhaps you are right about the title being harsh.
    When I wrote that post, I was feeling very discouraged with the world!

    The network that I was referring to is called "Daystar". That is the only religous network I can get. (except for a Catholic channel,and I am not interested in that one)

    For anyone interested:
    look up Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer and Benny Hinn on Google.com
    You will then understand the title of my post!
     
  9. Johnv

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    Excellent discernment. Thanks for pointing that out. I'd add to that one sentiment. Just because we disagree with a preacher, or just because a preacher's televising his/her messages, that doesn't automatically make him/her a WoF preacher, or a wolf in sheep's clothing, etc. There are a few preachers who are good, but with whom I simply disagree with. That doesn't make them bad. It just makes them someone I disagree with. I occaisionally disagree with D James Kennedy and Adrian Rodgers, but I think they're awesome preachers.
     
  10. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    To Johnv-
    If you knew the doctrines these teachers were teaching, you would understand that they are NOT Christian teahings, but mere heresies. Look up Kenneth Copeland, Joyce Meyer and Benny Hinn on Google.com.
    It is not a matter of liking or disliking them; what matters is that they try to pass of thier doctrines as Christian.
     
  11. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Whoa, tiger. In regards to these folks, I'd tend to agree with you.

    OTOH, I'm always careful to discern what is said on some web sites. I can find several sites that say D James Kennedy is WoF and a Mason, and another that calls Charles Stanley prosperity Gospel. That ain't so in the least.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia
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    I agree we have to be discerning about websites --some of them have info that is not backed up by facts or they have copied info from bad sources.

    I doubt there is any cumulative info to show Kennedy is WoF (hey, just put an 'l' in WoF and you get WoLF) or Stanley is a prosperity preacher. I've actually never heard that.

    There is plenty of evidence, however, to name the real WoF teachers. Some of them are Copeland, Creflo Dollar, Joyce Meyer, Joel Osteen, Frederick Price, Benny Hinn (he's really in his own category but uses some WoF teachings), Charles Capps, Rod Parsley, and Jesse Duplantis. Some have put T. D. Jakes also in this category. I do not get my info just from websites, but from reading on this for 12 yrs. and from other ministries who specialize in these areas.

    One of the sad things is that of the top 4 megachurches in the U.S., 3 are false teachers. The top church is Joel Osteen (over 25,000 in weekend attendance). Number 2 is Creflo Dollar. The 4th is T. D. Jakes, who also denies the Trinity. He does not deny it outright but he refuses to affirm it, and when interviewed, he said that asking about the Trinity is playing number games. He has a Oneness background and associates with a Oneness group. (The no. 3 church is Rick Warren's church).

    Although I am sure there are a lot of believers in these churches being misled and deceived (and when they are damaged and leave, they often never go to a church again), I do not think these teachers of heresy are believers. That's just my view, although I admit I cannot know for sure. It just seems that false teachers in the Bible are not regarded as being believers. But we are to judge are the teachings and that's we should focus on.

    Osteen and Joyce Meyer are more subtle but they do fall in the WoF category. Here are some links:

    Heretical Quotes

    A page with links to several articles on the WoF teachings and articles on Joyce Meyer, Benny Hinn, and Kenneth CopelandThe Faith Movement

    Kenneth Copeland

    An Examination of the Word Faith Movement

    Many of the WF doctrines come from the Dake Study Bible: Dake's Dubious Doctrine

    I have 8 online articles on Joyce Meyer as well as other articles on this topic, but thought I'd just post these for now. [​IMG]
     
  13. calvin4me

    calvin4me
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    To Johnv-

    I agree with you; we do have to discern these sites. I also didn't mean to come across as being arrogant -my apologies.
    I guess when I see so MANY of these sites, most of which do offer thier sources for us to investigate thier validity, I tend to get to easily persuaded. [​IMG]
     
  14. Johnv

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    Calvin4me, you and me both. Thank God for the gift of discernment!!!

    Marcia, the only think I disagree with on that is Wick Warren. He's not my thing, but he's far from WoF.
     
  15. Marcia

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    John V. said:
    John, I would never say Rick Warren is WoF! I hope no one else misunderstood what I wrote. I said:

    The 3 are Osteen, Creflo Dollar, and T. D. Jakes. That's why I put the info on Rick Warren in parenthesis -- he was the one out of the 4 who is not in this category. His church was no. 3, but I was trying to be clear that he was not in the category of the other 3 of the top 4. Sorry if that was confusing.
     
  16. Scott J

    Scott J
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    I recently spent 3 weeks in Germany.

    The only English tv channels were CNN Europe, BBC, MTV Europe, and TBN Europe. Apparently some of the pornography may have been in English also.

    So what shapes the world's opinion of the US? Frightening, huh?
     
  17. massdak

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    in one of billy grahams books he is hailed as one of the worlds favorite preachers, that should send up a red flag.
     
  18. Johnv

    Johnv
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    Marcia:

    Oops!!!! I misunderstood, my bad!!!
     
  19. Marcia

    Marcia
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    JohnV wrote:
    S'okay, JohnV! I can see how the info might have been misunderstood or confusing. [​IMG]
     
  20. rsr

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    Johnv said:

    "OTOH, I'm always careful to discern what is said on some web sites."

    Absolutely true. When I have posted critically about a WoF preacher by name, it has been based on something that came from their sites or what I have personally witness (sometimes with notebook in hand to record the event.)

    Scott: Yes, the thought is a bit frightening.
     

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