Paul-A Racist?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Cutter, Apr 19, 2010.

  1. Cutter

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    By todays standards would Paul be considered a racist or bigot for the following statements?

    Titus 1:10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision:
    11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake.
    12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, The Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies.
    13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith...
     
  2. Amy.G

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    In verse 12 Paul is quoting the Cretan (a person from Crete) poet Epimenides. So maybe the Cretian was the racist? :rolleyes:


    The Bible NEVER endorses racism. You won't find it because it isn't there.
     
  3. Mexdeaf

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    As already pointed out in a heretofore ignored thread- Jesus is in a multi-racial marriage according to Revelation 21.
     
  4. rbell

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    Why would you be looking for a justification for bigotry, Cutter?
     
  5. saturneptune

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    My opinion is that Paul was a man used of God in a mighty way.
     
    #5 saturneptune, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  6. Cutter

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    Yet, Paul goes on further to say, "This witness is true."
     
  7. Cutter

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    Just an honest question looking for an honest answer. So, can I assess by your statement that Paul was a a bigot, since you said the verses were used in an attempt to justify it.
     
    #7 Cutter, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  8. Cutter

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    Probably ignored because it is a ridiculous and stupid analogy. :rolleyes:
     
  9. pinoybaptist

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    They considered Gentiles inferior to them, and Gentiles considered them inferior.
    Jews called Gentiles dogs, and Gentiles had some names for Jews.
    When the Spirit showed how God had also chosen people among Gentiles, such as Cornelius, it was a thing that made Jews marvel.
    Jews felt superior over the idolatry and paganisms of Gentiles, because they were the recipients of God's word.
    If I recall correctly certain parts of the temple were not for Gentiles and converts but only for natural born Jews.
    Now if those aren't manifestations of racism, I don't know what they are.
    Ignorance ? Pride ? or all of the above ? or none of the above ?
     
  10. Cutter

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    Exactly. In spite of racism here being exhibited by Paul, he still loved the Lord, loved the gospel, loved people and tried to lead them to the Lord. On the other hand, if someone comes on this site in these current times and has their own opinion about other races, they are considered less than human and incapable of loving others or even being a Christian and a Minister. It does not mean that one judges every individual by their race, but they are aware of the differences in cultures and lifestyles, and the tendencies of other races. If people would admit it, every race, every nationality, and every ethnicity is racist to one degree or another. Maybe in small nuances that go unnoticed, but it's there. People are just not big enough to own up to it and feel good about themselves by judging others.
     
  11. rbell

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    You're the one trying to justify bigotry.

    Try and keep up, please.
     
  12. Edward 1689er

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    As Christians, I think that our views about "race" should be informed by the Bible and not by modern popular culture.
     
  13. GBC Pastor

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    It seems to me that Paul is giving assurance that what he is quoting from this false prophet is true. Not that the words themselves are true, but the fact the false witness said them is true.
     
  14. Scarlett O.

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    Oh, just forget it!

    I erased my post.

    People who try to defend sin won't change with any essay that I write here.
     
    #14 Scarlett O., Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2010
  15. Trotter

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    Amen, sister. Seems a passage about casting pearls before swine comes to mind...

    I am sure that a certain Ethiopian was very glad that Philip wasn't racist. If Paul had been a racist then he wouldn't have spent his life traveling and proclaiming the gospel to those who were not Jews and eventually losing his life because of it.
     
  16. matt wade

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    Baloney...you did much more than be aware of differences in cultures and lifestyles. That's not racist. You said you wouldn't marry an interracial couple. That's the problem. You've yet to explain that position except to say that it's just your opinion. Well, your opinion stinks.
     
  17. Winman

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    I understand what you are saying and do not believe you to be a bigot.

    I have to admit I am a religious bigot to a degree. A person's skin color means nothing to me, but a person's religious belief does. I am just being honest here. I have a hard time trusting Muslims. I do not believe all Muslims hate Christians, but there are quite a few, and the problem is, I can't tell the peaceful Muslims from the hateful Muslims.

    And to a small degree I mistrust other religions as well, because they do not have the mind of Christ. This would even apply to athiests.

    Now all this said, I work with a Muslim and a Buddist, and they are very nice people, especially the Buddist fellow. They are honest and hardworking. But one day I did get talking with the Muslim and he absolutely despises the Jews, I saw a bad side there.

    I try not to stereotype all individuals by their religion. I have known some professing Christians who cannot be trusted. But still, I admit I have a little difficulty with some religions, especially Muslims.
     
  18. Thinkingstuff

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    But note. Right after the quote Paul says this is a true witness. Which means he's saying that Epimenides is right. The thing is peoples of different cultures have ways of approaching situations and problems differently than other peoples and cultures. Not that one is superior or inferior than another. (Save depending on situation. So one way may be superior in a certain situation but not in all circumstances and not one culture has the best solution all way round). However, it is a fact people behave differently. My family is loud at the dinner table. We have friends that don't even share a dinner table. However, is it wrong to identify attitudes that are held in general by a culture or peoples? Paul does. The context of this passage is on what is expected of a bishop and a bishop on that island has particular challenges than a bishop of another regon. Doesn't mean one got of easily just means people groups are as different as people are.
     
    #18 Thinkingstuff, Apr 20, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 20, 2010
  19. Pastor Larry

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    Um, Cretans aren't a race. They are a nationality. The whole idea that Paul's quotation somehow indicates he is a racist is silly. Even if Paul made the statement himself rather than citing someone else, it has nothing to do with race.
     
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    I didn't say it had to do with race but "peoples and cultures". For instance I've told people Italians (from italy) are more laid back than Americans. Why? Because its true in one respect. Its not racist. Its a true witness. Thats not racist. Because if you knew anything about Italy its made up of several groups.
     

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