Paul and the Dispensation of Grace

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by InTheLight, Apr 30, 2015.

  1. InTheLight

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    It seems to me that Peter and Paul preached a slightly different gospel. Peter focused on the Jews; Paul on the Gentiles. Peter preached repentance; Paul preached justification by faith.

    Galatians 2:7 But on the contrary, when they saw that the gospel for the uncircumcised had been committed to me, as the gospel for the circumcised was to Peter 8 (for He who worked effectively in Peter for the apostleship to the circumcised also worked effectively in me toward the Gentiles),

    Eph. 3:1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles—
    2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
    3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
    4 by which, when you read, you may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ),
    5 which in other ages was not made known to the sons of men, as it has now been revealed by the Spirit to His holy apostles and prophets:
    6 that the Gentiles should be fellow heirs, of the same body, and partakers of His promise in Christ through the gospel,
    7 of which I became a minister according to the gift of the grace of God given to me by the effective working of His power.

    8 To me, who am less than the least of all the saints, this grace was given, that I should preach among the Gentiles the unsearchable riches of Christ,
    9 and to make all see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the ages has been hidden in God who created all things through Jesus Christ;
    10 to the intent that now the manifold wisdom of God might be made known by the church to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places,

    In Acts 2 Peter preached that Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection exalted him and put him at the right hand of God. Thus he seems to be preaching the Kingdom of God to the Jews.

    In 1 Cor. 15 Paul says that Jesus "died for our sins". He's preaching justification by faith in the gospel.

    Is the gospel that Peter preached the exact same one that Paul preached? Or are they different? Comments?
     
  2. Darrell C

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    It is the same Gospel. I think where confusion might arise is failing to understand there is no demand on Jews to forsake their heritage only to go on unto perfection, which is embracing the New Covenant, and to progress from the Covenant of Law.

    We see the Jerusalem Council seem to create a dichotomy in Acts. 15, but that is not the case. In view is not how one is saved, but how one lives within salvation. The point being that Gentiles are not being inducted into Judaism, and there is no mandate for them to live vaccording to the heritage of the Jew.

    The Council does not create a corollary that Jews are saved by the Law, and actually denies that in their declaration concerning Gentile believers.

    I hope this doesn't sound disrespectful, but it took Peter a while to embrace the Mystery of Gentile Inclusion and that there is neither Jew nor Greek (Gentile) and this issue is addressed by both the Lord and Paul.

    Peter, as usual, actually argues with the Lord in his first lesson, "Lord, I haven't eaten anything unclean...ever! From my youth!"

    He plays the hypocrite in his dealings with the Galatians (translated dissimulation).

    I think Paul was quicker to understand because his former life revolved around racial purity to the extent that...even Jews who did not meet his criteria were targets. For him his idea of what was true Israel demanded complete submission to and practice of Judaism, and I believe Paul sincerely believed God was using him to cleanse Israel. His actions can be seen in former Prophets.

    Now, to complicate the issue, lol, we can say the "gospel" Peter preached before being Baptised with the Holy Ghost was a different gospel than that preached by Paul after his conversion. That was the Gospel if the Kingdom which Christ said was for Israel alone. And He said that twice.

    But Peter and Paul both preached the same Gospel of Christ. Peter endorses Paul's teaching here:

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=2 Peter+3:15-17&version=KJV


    I think Peters heritage hindered him at times, whereas it helped Paul also, though for opposite reasons. Peter was prone to justify himself (I.e., "I will never forsake thee, I have never eaten that which is unclean, Lord you know I love you").

    Paul understood better..."I am the chief of sinners, the least among the Apostles, I have a thorn in the flesh. "

    There is only One Gospel and both Peter and Paul preached it.


    God bless.
     
  3. InTheLight

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    In this passage I see that Peter endorses Paul's teachings, but that does not necessarily mean they preached the same thing.


    Seems to me there are differences.

    Can you name a passage where Peter says Jesus "died for our sins"? There is 1 Peter 2:24, but that is a rewording of Isaiah 53.

    It's all over Paul's preaching. 1 Cor. 15:3-4; Romans 4:25; Romans 5:8; Colossians 1:22;
     
  4. Darrell C

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    I would caution you not to make demands of the Word of God. It implies you will believe only what is convenient to your beliefs. There are differences between the two even as there differences in John's ministry but the same Gospel. And understanding the Gospel must be in place before recognizing it in the Scriptures.

    Nevertheless, do you see Peter preaching the Gospel here...

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Peter+1:13-19&version=KJV

    ...?


    God bless.
     
  5. Darrell C

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  6. Darrell C

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  7. InTheLight

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    ??

    ??

    I'm trying to sort this issue out. It does seem to me that Paul and Peter preached a slightly different Gospel. Peter was sent to the Jews and Paul was sent to the Gentiles. That is clearly shown in a couple of places in the Bible. Peter preached repentance for the remission of sins. Paul preached belief in Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins. Yes, Paul eventually says "God commands all men everywhere to repent", but it was not the main theme of his preaching.

    Simply asserting, "it's the same Gospel" over and again does not make it necessarily so.

    Is there any place in the New Testament where Paul says, "Kingdom of God" or "Kingdom of Heaven"?
     
  8. InTheLight

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  9. PreachTony

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    If two different preachers visited your church and preached two different sermons to two different audiences, would you say they were preaching two different gospels? I feel like that's where we are with this. They preached the same gospel, just to two different audiences.

    Remember:
     
  10. Darrell C

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    I would suggest a word search on Strong's online concordance, and allow God to answer this question for you as you sort through it.

    As the New Testament was assembled there was s progressively better understanding of the Gospel, yet we still see the identical message. The writer of Hebrews never once uses the term born again but does this mean he did not preach the Gospel?

    You seem to be demanding Scripture to phrase things as you think they should or you see a different meaning. Shoe me the new birtjh in Revelation? Where regeneration is specifically mentioned. Does that mean Christ's teaching is a different teaching?

    The burden is on you to show why Paul and
    Peter preach Two Gospels. This would mean Paul would have viewed Peter accursed.

    Utilize Strong's online concordance. The best resource we have apart from the Word itself.


    God bless.
     
  11. OldRegular

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    God has always dealt with mankind through HIS Grace.

    After Adam and Eve sinned God did three things:

    1. He took the initiative in restoring the relationship that Adam had broken through sin; He sought out Adam and Eve.

    Genesis 3:9, KJV
    9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?


    2. He provided a cover for their nakedness, an atonement for their sin.

    Genesis 3:21, KJV
    21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.


    God made them coats of skin as a covering for their sin, skin that required the shedding of innocent blood, the blood of animals. Why is the shedding of blood required for the remission of sin? The penalty for sin is death. The life is in the blood.

    Leviticus 17:11, KJV
    11 For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.


    However, this atonement or covering, this sacrifice, was only provisional, foreshadowing the perfect sacrifice that was to come. In time God the Father through His Sovereign Grace would do for His elect what they could never do for themselves, He would make us accepted in the beloved [Ephesians 1:6, KJV].

    3. God made the first promise recorded in Scripture of that perfect sacrifice to come, Jesus Christ. Speaking to Satan God states:

    Genesis 3:15, KJV
    15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.


    Note that this promise or covenant, is unconditional. How would that redemption, that reconciliation be accomplished and at what cost? The Bible, God’s written revelation of Himself to mankind, records the story of the outworking of God’s Grace, the story of God’s purpose of redemption/reconciliation on the stage of world history.
     
  12. InTheLight

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    Well, I thought I was presenting evidence. Peter preached repentance to the Jews.

    Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. Acts 2:38

    Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out. Acts 3:19

    Paul preached "Jesus died for your sins".

    But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Rom. 5:8

    And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight. Col. 1:21-22

    When Jesus told his apostles (several times) he would be killed and then be raised again, they didn't believe him, particularly Peter.

    Matt 16:21 From that time Jesus began to show to His disciples that He must go to Jerusalem, and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised the third day.

    22 Then Peter took Him aside and began to rebuke Him, saying, “Far be it from You, Lord; this shall not happen to You!”

    23 But He turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you are not mindful of the things of God, but the things of men.”
     
  13. kyredneck

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    Their audiences affected the tenor of their messages. Paul addressed those who were newly grafted in, Peter preached to those on whom the end of the age with great wrath was coming. There was a very serious time line involved for every Jew of 'that generation' alive on the planet. The urgency of the message to 'the Jew first' was 'Save yourselves from this crooked generation' (Acts 2), and 'Every soul that shall not hearken to that prophet, shall be utterly destroyed from among the people' (Acts 3).

    Consider what was coming upon 'that generation':

    upon you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of Abel the righteous unto the blood of Zachariah son of Barachiah, whom ye slew between the sanctuary and the altar. Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. Mt 23:35,36

    (compare with: And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints, and of all that have been slain upon the earth. Rev 18:24 )

    23 Woe unto them that are with child and to them that give suck in those days! for there shall be great distress upon the land, and wrath unto this people.
    32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all things be accomplished. Lk 21

    God made sure that every Jew on earth was given the chance to 'hearken to that prophet' before the wrath came. All the Jews of that generation on earth heard the gospel, and were given the chance to repent and escape the wrath that was to come upon 'that generation', and for their progeny to avoid the curses of the OT [Lev 26; Dt 28 & 31,32] that were to come upon the race. God gave her time to repent (a full forty year generation), but she would not. Only a remnant was saved.
     
    #13 kyredneck, Apr 30, 2015
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  14. JonC

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    2 Corinthians 11:4. They preached the same gospel. Perhaps they expounded on the gospel differently.
     
  15. Aaron

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    If Peter preached a different gospel than Paul's, then he was accursed.

    [Gal 1:8-9 KJV] 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any [man] preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
     
  16. kyredneck

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    But he DIDN'T preach a different gospel, he had a different audience.

    22 Behold then the goodness and severity of God: toward them that fell, severity; but toward thee, God`s goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. Ro 11

    14 For ye, brethren, became imitators of the churches of God which are in Judaea in Christ Jesus: for ye also suffered the same things of your own countrymen, even as they did of the Jews;
    15 who both killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets, and drove out us, and pleased not God, and are contrary to all men;
    16 forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they may be saved; to fill up their sins always: but the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost. 1 Thess 2

    9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. 2 Pet 3

    21 And I gave her time that she should repent; and she willeth not to repent of her fornication. Rev 2
     
    #16 kyredneck, May 1, 2015
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  17. Darrell C

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    And I pointed out Peter's objection to the Gospel, at least I think I did, in the first post. We can't blame Peter...he was not Baptized with the Holy Ghost yet.

    So the one thing I would suggest from the latter verses you post here is that Peter had to conform to the Gospel, and this is what he did after being Baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    Here the Lord makes it clear opposition of the Gospel is satanic in nature.

    The Lord shows, before His death, that their belief they "believed" was incorrect:


    John 16:28-32

    King James Version (KJV)

    28 I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

    29 His disciples said unto him, Lo, now speakest thou plainly, and speakest no proverb.

    30 Now are we sure that thou knowest all things, and needest not that any man should ask thee: by this we believe that thou camest forth from God.

    31 Jesus answered them, Do ye now believe?

    32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.



    One thing I would suggest to you in regards to Paul's ministry to the Gentiles is that Paul, formerly Saul, was hated by many Jews. Christian and Judaizer alike. To the Judaizer he was a traitor and infidel; to the Christian there was a distrust due to his persecution of the Church.

    The Gentiles had nothing to do with this, at least, in those areas he began missionary efforts in.

    I have seen some great reasons why Paul was the author of Hebrews, and I think he was. The reason the Epistle was anonymous, I believe, is because if the Hebrew audience knew it was from Paul...many of them would reject it outright, especially those who receive the most rebuke in the Epistle, Jews having difficulty progressing from the Covenant of Law to the New Covenant. This is the overarching theme of Hebrews...

    ...you must embrace Christ and the New Covenant.

    Hebrews is the New Testament Torah, in a manner of speaking. It is very doctrinal and deals with issues that would apply primarily to Jews under Law. It is a Book of contrasts that have a central focus of the Covenants (the Law and the New), and the differences between them. The former was incomplete, the latter brings completion.

    And in Hebrews, because the Writer deals with Hebrews, we do not see mention of the New Birth. We only see repentance mentioned in fleeting. What we do see is the same message by which men can be saved, though the approach, and audience, is different.

    It may be that Peter connected with Jews that maintained their heritage, whereas Paul would have been, even by Jews who had been saved, despised by many Jews. Even I can relate more with Peter in the sense that I too have a habit of sticking my foot in my mouth, lol. I can relate with Paul and argue who among us is chief of sinners. But I can learn what the Lord meant for each one to teach me, if I try to keep the harmony Scripture always maintained.

    Christ began instructing people on eternal salvation, Peter carried on, and Paul did as well. Remember that Paul was dealing in large part with believers, whereas Peter dealt with those in need of conversion, in the passages where we see him preaching. The transitional period from the Day of Pentecost unto the founding of the Church in a more widespread and culturally different multitude is going to lead to different areas of ministry. Paul dealt with errors of believers, which errors could often-time be traced to their own heritage itself. Galatians is interesting in that their error was caused...by Judaizers.

    Like I said before, Peter's heritage hindered him at times whereas Paul's heritage was a reminder of his sin, and we know hard lessons are usually the best teachers. Not long after I was saved I witnessed to my brother who attended, nominally, a Catholic Church. I literally burned that bridge in my efforts, and one day the Lord showed me that. And that is nothing in comparison with Paul, who had people put to death. Once he was saved I am sure that was a burden that impacted him emotionally, and also hindered his efforts sometimes.

    A thorn in the flesh, perhaps?


    God bless.
     
  18. kyredneck

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    These already had done just that:

    1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of a heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our confession, even Jesus; Heb 3

    The overreaching theme to these persecuted Jewish Christians was 'hold fast', don't fall away back to the apostate religion that you were brought out from:

    6 but Christ as a son, over his house; whose house are we, if we hold fast our boldness and the glorying of our hope firm unto the end.
    12 Take heed, brethren, lest haply there shall be in any one of you an evil heart of unbelief, in falling away from the living God: Heb 3
    14 Having then a great high priest, who hath passed through the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. Heb 4
    23 let us hold fast the confession of our hope that it waver not; for he is faithful that promised: Heb 10
     
    #18 kyredneck, May 1, 2015
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  19. kyredneck

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    What is it you see as significant in this? Are you implying that the 'birth from above' does not apply to Jews?
     
  20. Darrell C

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    So say the L.O.S.T. (loss of salvation teachers).

    The problem with that is that the L.O.S.T. never keep a complete context that shows those who do fall away are those that are faithless unbelievers, not people who are saved:


    Hebrews 3:18-19

    King James Version (KJV)

    18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

    19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.


    Hebrews 4

    King James Version (KJV)

    1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

    2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

    3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.




    There is no question that Hebrews is written to Christians, but, like any preacher does, he addresses unbelievers in his teaching. And the warnings given in Hebrews are directed to those who are in danger of replicating the unbelief of those who fell in the Wilderness.


    lol...not at all. The significance of the Epistle addressing Jews is found throughout the Book. Many were having a hard time letting go of the Covenant of Law.

    Consider...


    Hebrews 6:6

    King James Version (KJV)

    6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.



    How does one crucify Christ again?

    Give it some thought before answering.

    And I will address your response, but after that I will not address issues which are off-topic with the OP.

    If you want to debate the fact that the L.O.S.T. make believers out of unbelievers due to failure to maintain a proper context...start a thread. Be glad to discuss it with you.


    God bless.
     

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