Paul's Gathering or Pre-wrath Perversion

Discussion in 'Books / Publications Forum' started by R. J., Sep 29, 2004.

  1. R. J.

    R. J.
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    For a thorough refutation of the Pre-wrath rapture position as manifest in H. L. Nigro's "Before God's Wrath", take a look at this book by Independent Baptist Pastor Carl W. Denson called "Paul's Gathering or Pre-wrath Perversion".

    Van Kampen and Rosenthal are also mentioned prominently as the founders of the "Pre-wrath" rapture position.

    The reader will come away with an understanding of all of the modern rapture positions and will certainly find this book to be doctrinally profitable. The Holy Scriptures are quoted over 4000 times in this 484 page book.

    This book will also illuminate the scriptures concerning the timing of Paul's gathering (i.e. the gathering of the body of Christ). While fully negating the "heresy" of prewrath rapturism, it establishes the position of the MIDWEEK rapture. This gathering is prior to the Great Tribulation which is the ONLY tribulation definitively spoken of in God's Holy Scriptures.
     
  2. DeafPosttrib

    DeafPosttrib
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    R.J.

    Please show us, where a verse in the Bible saying rapture will be occur 3 1/2 years earlier before Christ's coming?

    In Christ
    Rev. 22:20 -Amen!
     
  3. JGrubbs

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    I am assuming that you had already "fully negated the 'heresy' of prewrath rapturism" in your mind before ever reading the book.

    I have always been taught the pretrib rapture viewpoint, but now that I lean towards the prewrath viewpoint as being what I believe to be the proper interpretation I don't call pretrip "heresy". The timing of the rapture is a matter of interpretation, and can't be dogmatic.

    If your right then we will all be in Heaven much sooner, if I'm right then we better be prepared for the persecution that will come.
     
  4. Dr. Bob

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    Rosenthal held the traditional pre-trib/pre-mil position of ifb'ers for most of his life. His "Friends of Israel" reflected that biblical position.

    When he left that position (and since become a multimillionaire with a bible theme park in Florida) he taught the pre-wrath. He was fired for heresy from the ministry he had founded!
     
  5. carlaimpinge

    carlaimpinge
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    According to my memory of Rosenthal's statements concerning the events, the board of the mission couldn't allow or accomodate a doctrinal stance other than pretrib, while he couldn't SIGN the REQUIRED existing statement, contrary to his belief. They actually didn't fire him, nor did he resign. He just couldn't continue in his supervisory capacity. Red tape? Bureaucratic necessity? No fault divorce?

    Hello Fla., Disneyworld, and Mammon!
     
  6. R. J.

    R. J.
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    Deafposttrib,

    Your "show us" term leads one to believe that you are a member of some group that shares your post-trib beliefs. To which Baptist organization do you belong that supports the post-trib position. It must be one that overthrows the teachings for the body of Christ as manifest in the apostle Paul's epistles.

    As to your request, there is no verse or passage within the Holy Scriptures that states that the gathering of the body of Christ is 3 1/2 years before the second advent to earth by the Lord Jesus Christ.

    The apostle Paul makes it quite clear that BELIEVERS will escape the sudden destruction that comes upon UNBELIEVERS as the travail of a woman with child. Here are the verses:

    1 Thessalonians 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

    1 Thessalonians 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

    1 Thessalonians 5:4 But ye, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief.

    These verses prooftext a pre-tribulation gathering. That is, unless you can not read and understand the terms "sudden destruction" and "day of the Lord". NOTE: For a thorough understanding of the term "Day of the Lord", I would recommend an extensive and in depth series of bible studies that can be found at this link:

    http://p079.ezboard.com/fthemidweekrapturefrm156

    The "sudden destruction" is the great tribulation. There is NO VERSE that states that the great tribulation starts exactly 3 1/2 years before the second advent of Jesus Christ to this earth. There are several verses that place the START of the great tribulation at the MIDST of Daniel's 70th week. It is a SUPPOSITION of MAN that places the start of the great tribulation at the EXACT MIDDLE of Daniel's 70th week.

    In Christ,

    R. J.
     
  7. R. J.

    R. J.
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    JGrubbs,

    Your comment:

    I am assuming that you had already "fully negated the 'heresy' of prewrath rapturism" in your mind before ever reading the book.

    You assumed wrong, brother. The heresy of the prewrath position is fully negated by the Holy Scriptures.

    In Christ,

    R. J.
     
  8. Dr. Bob

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    And others would consider the "Mid Trib" (you call it MidWeek for some reason?) position equally reprehensible to the pre-wrath.

    As a young Christian I leaned heavily into a mid-trib position. Now, as I speak across the nation and world, I advocate a strong pre-trib position than ever.

    I love the phrase "pre-wrath perversion" but am disappointed then at interjecting "another perversion" in its place.
     
  9. JGrubbs

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    It's a matter of interpretation. I believe the Scriptures negate the pre-trib position, you believe they Scriptures negate the pre-wrath position.

    If you are right, we will find out after the rapture in heaven, if I am right, I will be prepared for the coming persecution.
     
  10. R. J.

    R. J.
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    Dr. Bob,

    I find the pre-sorrows supposition that there is a "seven year tribulation" a reprehensible perversion of the truth. Does that make us "reprehenibly" even. LOL!!!

    As I challenged you in our email exchange, go study the midweek position before you suggest that the midweek rapture position is perverse. I know that you do not "have a clue" concerning the midweek position when you liken it to mid-trib. These two positions are not even remotely the same.

    Study it and refute it with the Book, brother. You can start your own topic in a "Questions and Comments" category at http://pub70.ezboard.com/bthemidweekrapture

    Come on over and dive in to some in depth bible studies on the end times and related topics.

    In Christ,

    R. J.
     

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