Paul's Relentless "Calvinism" Drove His Evangelical Effort

Skan,
love no doubt...but a scripturally informed love;

Skan,
it is a two edged sword

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

When I was a Calvinist I didn't believe this nor does my brother. But I've seen it argued here several times. It is a very widely accepted view.

Men like A.W. Pink teach this: "God loves whom He chooses. He does not love everybody."

 

He is speaking about Israel, who is being judicially hardened (cut off). Just as Pharaoh was hardened to bring about the first passover, the Jews were hardened to bring about the real Passover. This is what Romans 9 is teaching.

I was a Calvinist for about a decade and went on many mission trips and lead many to the Lord as a five pointer. In fact, my brother is a missionary on the field in a dangerous closed country and is still Calvinistic, so I understand that and don't accuse Calvinists of being anti-evangelistic. I believe some are, but so are some non-Calvinists for that matter. I know that the respected Calvinistic scholars/preachers don't believe or teach anti-evangelism.

 

We're way off topic, but the good Mr. Skandelon wrote:

Could you cite this? I'm more familiar with Pink saying that salvation is God's choice from God's side, and ours from our side (to summarize). Some Calvinists reject him for saying that.

While I contributed to being off topic, I would like to get an answer. But everyone: let's get back on topic or we'll close the thread. It is open by a "thread" (Get it?)

 

I understand that perspective, but consider our perspective with an objective mind. In other words, don't try to debate me, just try to really understand why I and others don't believe the way you did. Really understand why we believe what we believe.

If you consider the historical context of that day you will see that the Jews, as a people, were being hardened in their rebellion, but the Gentiles were listening and believing. Consider Paul's words in Acts 28:

23 They arranged to meet Paul on a certain day, and came in even larger numbers to the place where he was staying. From morning till evening he explained and declared to them the kingdom of God and tried to convince them about Jesus from the Law of Moses and from the Prophets. 24 Some were convinced by what he said, but others would not believe. 25 They disagreed among themselves and began to leave after Paul had made this final statement: "The Holy Spirit spoke the truth to your forefathers when he said through Isaiah the prophet: 26 " 'Go to this people and say, "You will be ever hearing but never understanding; you will be ever seeing but never perceiving." 27 For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.' 28 "Therefore I want you to know that God's salvation has been sent to the Gentiles, and they will listen!"

See what is happening? Paul takes the gospel first to the Jews, but their hearts have gone hardened, "otherwise they might see." So, Paul takes the message to the Gentiles because they haven't grown hardened, "they will listen."

Paul further explains this in Romans 9-11, in that the Jews are being "cut off" from the tree while the Gentiles are being "grafted in." Make sense? I'm not asking for agreement. I'm just wanting to you understand why we believe what we believe.

 

Arthur W. Pink, The Sovereignty of God (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1930), 29-30.

I will submit to whatever is decided, but I think this is on topic in that we are discussing the differing views of Calvinism and their effect on believers drive to share with others.

 

I disagree.

They could be minimized at very least, especially labels which contain the names of mortal men.

It grates a nerve to see people using calvin's/arminus' name and the derivatives thereof over and over again in a thread and even overshadowing the name of Christ.

HankD

 

I wasn't attempting to "diminish" what you said, which is why I said not to view my response as an attempt to debate. I was attempting to help you see our perspective with regard to God's cutting off the elect nation of Israel while grafting in the Gentile people. Paul is expressing his love for Israel, who is being cut off or hardened in their rebellion. He is not expressing his love for certain elect individuals as you seemed to presume upon the text.

We don't need to "get back" to something we never left. I'm attempting to show you the non-Calvinistic understanding of Paul's motivation to win the lost as revealed in Romans 9.

 

Huh....Well all I can say is that Pink was an Island to himself.

 

Think that ALl of us can "proof text" the Bible and come to the conclusion jesus and paul were/ were not Cal/Arms etc!

Think best to label this as under "pauline Theology"

 

What is seen though in the Biblical text is that God did/does establish a personal relationship/individual election with people such as Moses/Abraham etc, and that he also had a corporate relationship with nation of Isreal and HIs Church!

So its Both going on, not either/or !

 

What IS clear from this passage are 2 things:

paul did NOT see the Church replacing isreal/ but as an addition to plan of God, both co existing moving forward

Paul saw it as imperitive that individual jews place faith in Christ and be saved, individual call to election!

 

Never said their was either/or. I've explained many times that God also selects individuals for noble purposes such as apostles, prophets, kings etc.

Proof that God has individually selected his divine messengers is not proof that God individually selects those who will believe their message.

 

I'm sorry, I don't understand this sentence. Are you saying that in the passage in Romans 9:1-4, Paul is not speaking of "his fellow countryman" as meaning Israel?

I read this 5 times and cannot decipher it. Can you reword your argument or make it more clear as to what you are referring to??

 

Apparently it was an island with internet access because it has spread.