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Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by awaken, Mar 23, 2013.
I know this is an old debate...
When was Paul actually saved/born again/child of God?
He was born-again when Jesus spoke to him on the road to Damascus. This is when he believed, and submitted himself to Jesus as his Lord.
I agree...Paul submitted in faith to the Lordship of Christ during his encounter with Jesus on the road to Damascus!
So Paul was converted to Christianity when he saw and spoke to the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus, and he received his apostleship at that time. However, there was a three-day gap (see Acts 9:9) between the moment when Paul was saved and the moment when he was "filled" with the Holy Spirit when a disciple named Ananias laid hands on him:
"Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, "Brother Saul, the Lord--Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here--has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit." Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul's eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized" (Acts 9:17-18)
I don't think he actually seen Jesus, but a bright light which blinded him, and then he heard the voice of Jesus speaking to him. And I wouldn't say he received his Apostleship at that time, but rather when he received the filling of the Holy Ghost.
Why is this even a topic?
Well. Yeah. Redundant too:
"....when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me..."
John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb, David was made to hope while on his mother's breast, Isaac was born after the Spirit by the time of his weaning, Paul was separated from his mother's womb to preach Christ among the Gentiles.
Don't know what you mean by 'saved'. The majority of Christianity goms it up to mean the birth from above and/or the acquisition of eternal life. What actually occured on the road to Damascus was Paul being made whole, being brought into the kingdom, and that only WHEN it was the good pleasure of God to do so.
Surely you are not suggesting that Paul was born-again at the same time Paul was born of his mother??
"Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord?" (1 Corinthians 9:1)
Not only did Saul receive salvation on the road to Damascus, but he was also commissioned as an apostle at that time because Jesus sent him on his mission. One condition for apostleship is having seen Jesus ( Acts 1:22, 1 Corinthians 9:1), and it's easy to demonstrate that Saul (the apostle Paul) saw Jesus on the road to Damascus:
Acts 26:16: [on the road to Damascus] "'Now get up and stand on your feet. I [Jesus] have appeared to you [Saul] to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you."
1 Corinthians 15:8: "and last of all he [Jesus] appeared to me [Saul] also, as to one abnormally born."
So Saul witnessed the risen Jesus on the road to Damascus, and he immediately submitted in faith to the Lord. Then the Lord appointed Saul as a witness, and said that He was sending Saul out to carry the Gospel to the world (Acts 26:17-18). This is where the apostle Paul received his commission as an apostle. Again...The Greek word apostello ("sending") in Acts 26:17 means, "(by implication) to send out (properly on a mission)" (Strong's Greek Dictionary). Two similar Greek words are derived from apostello:
apostole - "apostleship" (Strong's Greek Dictionary)
apostolos - "apostle, messenger, he that is sent" (Strong's Greek Dictionary)
These words describe a person who has been commissioned by Jesus as an apostle, which is what happened to Saul (the apostle Paul) on the road to Damascus in Acts 26:16-18.
When Jesus commissioned Saul as an apostle, notice what Jesus said and notice how Saul responded:
Acts 26:16: "'Now get up and stand on your feet. I [Jesus] have appeared to you [Saul] to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen of me and what I will show you."
Acts 26:17: "I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending [apostello] you to them"
Acts 26:18: "to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.'"
Acts 26:19: ""So then, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the vision from heaven."
Acts 26:20: "First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds."
In verses 17 and 18 (above), Jesus said that He was sending Saul out to carry the Gospel to the world, "so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me." Saul pointed out that he was not disobedient to the vision from heaven (Acts 26:19), which tells us that he had responded in faith and obedience to the Lordship of Christ on the road to Damascus. Saul soon began carrying out his apostolic commission, going around and preaching that people "should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds" (Acts 26:20). This perfectly describes salvation by faith alone, and Saul (the apostle Paul) didn't teach that people need to be baptized for salvation.
I was thinking this was discussed here...I am on so many forums I forgot!
I included in my post saved/born again/ child of God etc.
Unless others want to discuss this! I will leave it alone...forgot that it has already been discussed!
Ok, :thumbs:, Paul must have been blinded after he seen Jesus. Good investigative work!
God's point of view was that paul was saved from before the foundation of the World itself, in the beloved...
Our point of view, when he met the risen Jesus on road to Damascus!
Our friend is trying to "sneak in the back door" here from paul how we can be saved, born again, but also need to be baptized by the Holy Ghost, having a second experience!
Yes, that is correct. She just couldn't resist.
Every time she starts a thread you already know that is what she is going to do. She is afraid to be up front in the op.
You guys want to discuss Pauls experience or do you want to start a name calling debate??
Never fails when people can not stay on scriptures they start to attack the person!
Actually when you cannot make a clear and convincing case you start sneaky threads and then deflect when it is pointed out.
I did not defect! I realize after someone posted that I had already started a thread on this! If you want to debate it! I am up to it! But lets stick to scriptures and not start personal attacks!
Do you wish to prove to us by the example of paul that God has a second act of Grace to us today called the "baptism in the Holy ghost?" Have you had that experience?
When did you say that Paul was saved? On the road to Damascus? Well, what happen when Ananias laid hands on him?