Per Ephesians/Apostle paul? Are BOTH Grace/Faith Gifts From God?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by JesusFan, Apr 12, 2011.

  1. JesusFan

    JesusFan
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    If yes, is that why boasting is excluded?

    For those who know their Greek on this text...

    What was paul actual intending hear in Eph: 2:8-9?
     
  2. revmwc

    revmwc
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    for by Grace are you saved, Salvation is by Grace.
    Through or because of your faith you are saved. You place your faith in Christ, you believe the gospel.
    It is not of yourself, salvation is not of yourself, it is the gift of God, Salvation is the Gift of God. Since it is a free gift you can't work for it and if you have no merit in it you cannot boast about having saved yourself through works.

    Grace is not the gift Salvation is the gift. Grace is the means of supplying the gift.
     
  3. Gabriel Elijah

    Gabriel Elijah
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    Very good question & one that has seen much debate over the centuries. But in the Greek both faith & grace are feminine, whereas the “that” (touto, a demonstrative pronoun) is neuter, which means it is difficult to narrow down the gift of Eph 2:8 to either faith or grace. B/c of this many scholars believe the “gift” refers back to the previous statement about salvation described in Eph 2:4-8. Meaning that salvation as a whole is a gift. As Harold W. Hoehner explains, “[touto] refers back to the concept of salvation (Eph 2:4-8), whose basis is grace and means is faith. This salvation does not have its source in man (it is “not from yourselves”), but rather, its source is God’s grace for “it is the gift of God.” While John MacArthur says something very similar he adds, ““That” refers to the entire previous statement of salvation, not only the grace but the faith. Although men are required to believe for salvation, even that faith is part of the gift of God which saves and cannot be exercised by one’s own power. God’s grace is preeminent in every aspect of salvation.” While I personally agree with MacAthur, I admit that the Greek by itself does not demonstrate that faith is the gift Paul is referring to, but when considering that faith is certainly apart of the salvation process that Paul describes, it too can be considered a gift. But like I said—this certainly could be up for debate.
     
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    Here's a verse that settles the issue:
    Philippians 1:29
     
  5. Van

    Van
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    The "pre-salvation" gift of faith is false doctrine. No verse contextually considered supports the fiction.

    Lets take Philippians 1:29 which "settles the issue"

    Philippians 1:29 says, “For to you it has been granted for Christ’s sake, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake.” Similar to other passages where the term “granted” is used, an inference can be drawn as to how something is granted. Thus, it is asserted that this verse says the ability to believe is granted which overcomes spiritual inability. But the inference is unnecessary. God granted salvation, repentance, and belief when He gave His Son, the object of our faith, so that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. Those that love Christ are willing to march through fire for His sake, to bring mercy to a lost world. Next, God granted that we may come to Christ by not specifically hardening our heart, such as Romans 11 or Judas. Thus granted means God allows something to occur rather than deterministically causes something to occur.
     
  6. jbh28

    jbh28
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    Both grace and faith is a gift of God. Our faith is a person faith and the ability to believe on Jesus Christ comes from him. I have take no credit for my faith and give him all the glory!
     

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