Perfected forever !

Discussion in 'Calvinism/Arminianism Debate' started by savedbymercy, Jan 18, 2015.

  1. savedbymercy

    savedbymercy
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    Heb 10:10-14

    10 By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

    11 And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:

    12 But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;

    13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.

    14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

    True Believers were perfected forever by Christ's Death before they were even born sinners, if Christ died for our sins 1 Cor 15:3.

    Now many unenlightened minds, calling themselves Believers or Christians do fail to realize that all sinners Christ has died for, hath once and for all, solely by Hos One Offering, which means His Death, they by it hath been once and for all Sanctified Vs 10 and Perfected forever ! Both the words Sanctified in Vs 10 and Perfected in Vs 14 are in the Perfect tense in the greek :

    http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cfm?b=Heb&c=10&t=KJV#s=t_conc_1143010

    Also in Vs 10 the we are is in the present tense, meaning they were permanently in a state of Sanctification ongoing !

    This is before they are born and certainly before they believe. They are these things based upon His Offering of Himself, His Sacrifice, also based upon it is the certainty of of their Eternal Glory which is the Capstone of having been Perfected by His Offering, to be ushered into a Permanent state of Perfection and Glory, Eternal Glory 2 Tim 2:10

    Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

    1 Pet 5:10

    But the God of all grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle you.

    This Eternal Glory, the Crowning Achievement of Our Perfection, and only God knows what that all entails, is the simple consequence , outcome of having been both Sanctified and Perfected by the Offerong of Christ, meaning His Death.

    All of God's Elect, even in their times of being solely in the flesh, unregenerate and totally depraved, enemies of God in their minds as stated here Col 1:21

    21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled

    They are nevertheless washed in the Blood of Christ , Clothed in His Righteousness Imputed, in the sight of God ! In fact, even the Saints who are presently inn Glory, are no more Holy in the sight of God as they are while they are enemies.

    In God's Sight, they are always and forever free from any charge of sin, though they may drink it like water while joined with that body of death, but yet their iniquities Christ has already borne for them Isa 53:11

    11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.

    And by that, they have been Sanctified and Perfected forever !
     
  2. JamesL

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    So....are you perfect?
     
  3. JamesL

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    C'mon, man.

    You were quick to jump on EWF in the other thread at 3:26 am, demanding an answer to your question about whether Jesus save everybody He set out to save

    Well, answer mine. It's been 20 minutes.

    Are you perfect? Did He accomplish that for you?
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    This thread is not about me, its about what the death of Christ done. Now how about reviewing with me what I posted about the Two things Christ did for those He died for. Please review and show me that you understand the points even though you have a right to disagree with them !
     
  5. BobRyan

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    Your extreme inference has just lead you to Mormonism.

    But it is "checked" by the Bible definition of how the LOST are saved.

    ALL the World - LOST
    (so then.. not saved from before birth) Everyone, every mouth, all the world


    [FONT=&quot]Rom 3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Gal 3 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]1 Tim 1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;[/FONT] 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


    [FONT=&quot]The God of the Bible "came to seek and save the lost". Luke 19:10, Matt 18:11[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]“He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not” John1:11

    [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]“God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD” 1John 4:14[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Acts 17[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]24 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;[/FONT] 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

    [FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.[/FONT] 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all,


    [FONT=&quot]2 Pet 3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]1 John 2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Jesus Christ “is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD” [/FONT]

    =======================================================================================
    the SEQUENCE of Salvation for each person -- according to the actual Bible
    =======================================================================================

    [FONT=&quot]John 12[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” 33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die. 34 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard out of the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”

    John 20
    27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” 30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

    ==================== note

    BOTH Calvinists and Arminians agree that the lost do not "please God" but where we differ is that Arminians believe the "Lost are part of the WORLD" and that[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot] "God so LOVED the (lost) World that HE Gave... yes really -- that WHOSOEVER believes on Him might not perish but have everlasting life... yes really" John 3:16

    Paul says the gospel is going to the unsaved [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Romans 11 " 14 if somehow I might move to jealousy my fellow countrymen and save some of them."

    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

    [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot][FONT=&quot]Romans 10 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    [/FONT][FONT=&quot]“The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart”—that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

    The very sequence Calvinism forbids - the Bible affirms! The gospel goes to the lost - those who are not saved, and not at all righteous -- and then -
    "with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation."


    "I STAND at the door and KNOCK - if ANYONE hears My voice AND OPENS THE DOOR I will come in" Rev 3:20

    ================================[/FONT]

    The very sequence Calvinism objects to is found there [/FONT]
     
    #5 BobRyan, Jan 18, 2015
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 18, 2015
  6. savedbymercy

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    Way to evade the Truth. Now how about explaining back in review what I highlighted about the death of Christ !
     
  7. JamesL

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    Yeah, typical. Now nobody understands.
     
  8. BobRyan

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    you are ignoring so many Bible texts you find it difficult to render one with balance and accuracy - for example -- Christ's one act of sacrifice provides the atoning sacrifice for all the world 1 John 2:2 but does not make all the world saved because people must be born and choose. Provision is made in the past - but you are still born lost until you accept the Gospel.

    As we see in Eph 2

    Ask yourself - were you dead before you were born? were you sanctified before you were born - and were you at birth born in heaven - on the Throne of Christ? really??

    2 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2 in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
    4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus
     
    #8 BobRyan, Jan 18, 2015
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  9. BobRyan

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    You view the Bible texts that refute Calvinism as "so much evasion of the truth - texts much to be ignored" -- but they prove you are not using balanced Bible exegesis - you are merely proof-texting with extreme inference. A form of eisegesis that would not last 5 minutes in serious Bible study on the very points you raise --- I as proved so quickly with Eph 2.
     
  10. savedbymercy

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    More evasion from the points made in the Op !
     
  11. BobRyan

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    instead of "some of the world born lost and will never be saved - and some of the world born pre-saved" (A form of Mormonism) -- the ACTUAL Bible says this

    =========================

    ALL the World - LOST
    (so then.. not saved from before birth) Everyone, every mouth, all the world


    [FONT=&quot]Rom 3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]19 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God [/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Gal 3 [/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]21 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Is the Law then contrary to the promises of God? May it never be! For if a law had been given which was able to impart life, then righteousness would indeed have been based on law.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 22 But the Scripture has shut up everyone under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.[/FONT]


    [FONT=&quot]1 Tim 1[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]12 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who has strengthened me, because He considered me faithful, putting me into service,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 13 even though I was formerly a blasphemer and a persecutor and a violent aggressor. Yet I was shown mercy because I acted ignorantly in unbelief;[/FONT] 14 and the grace of our Lord was more than abundant, with the faith and love which are found in Christ Jesus. 15 It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all. 16 Yet for this reason I found mercy, so that in me as the foremost, Jesus Christ might demonstrate His perfect patience as an example for those who would believe in Him for eternal life. 17 Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory forever and ever. Amen.


    [FONT=&quot]The God of the Bible "came to seek and save the lost". Luke 19:10, Matt 18:11[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]“He came to His OWN and His OWN received Him not” John1:11

    [/FONT] [FONT=&quot]“God sent His Son to be the Savior of the WORLD” 1John 4:14[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]Acts 17[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]24 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The God who made the world and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 25 nor is He served by human hands, as though He needed anything, since He Himself gives to all people life and breath and all things;[/FONT] 26 and He made from one man every nation of mankind to live on all the face of the earth, having determined their appointed times and the boundaries of their habitation, 27 that they would seek God, if perhaps they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and exist, as even some of your own poets have said, ‘For we also are His children.’ 29 Being then the children of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, an image formed by the art and thought of man. 30 Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, 31 because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”

    [FONT=&quot]1 Tim 2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]3 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,[/FONT][FONT=&quot] 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.[/FONT] 5 For there is one God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all,


    [FONT=&quot]2 Pet 3[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]9 [/FONT][FONT=&quot]The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.[/FONT]

    [FONT=&quot]1 John 2[/FONT]
    [FONT=&quot]Jesus Christ “is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sins and NOT for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD” [/FONT]

    ================================================== =====================================
    the SEQUENCE of Salvation for each person -- according to the actual Bible
    ================================================== =====================================

    [FONT=&quot]John 12[/FONT][FONT=&quot]
    32 And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to Myself.” 33 But He was saying this to indicate the kind of death by which He was to die. 34 The crowd then answered Him, “We have heard out of the Law that the Christ is to remain forever; and how can You say, ‘The Son of Man must be lifted up’? Who is this Son of Man?” 35 So Jesus said to them, “For a little while longer the Light is among you. Walk while you have the Light, so that darkness will not overtake you; he who walks in the darkness does not know where he goes. 36While you have the Light, believe in the Light, so that you may become sons of Light.”

    John 20
    27 Then He *said to Thomas, “Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving, but believing.” 28 Thomas answered and said to Him, “My Lord and my God!” 29 Jesus *said to him, “Because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.” 30 Therefore many other signs Jesus also performed in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; 31 but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

    [FONT=&quot]===================================

    [FONT=&quot]So then the question -- how much of the Bible do you need to ignore to cling to Calvinism "an[FONT=&quot]yway"??[/FONT][/FONT]
    [/FONT] [/FONT]
     
  12. BobRyan

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    I see... so smaller texts - are better.

    Your extreme inference refuted:

    3 among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others.
     
  13. savedbymercy

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    More evasion from the points made !
     
  14. BobRyan

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    So "not even one response to the text" in your answer??? wow.

    Every debunking text is dismissed as "evasion" to one who needs to avoid the Bible and cling to man-made tradition "anyway"

    What RC priest in the dark ages could not use such tactics against the Protestant Reformation??
     
    #14 BobRyan, Jan 18, 2015
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  15. BobRyan

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    Were you "by nature a child of wrath" before you were saved in real life? on this actual earth? or is Paul simply "wrong"??

    Did you sin before Christ died on the cross??

    Rom 5:8
    . 8 But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us


    Were you "born in heaven" at the right hand of God - seated with Christ -- or on earth??

    Eph 2
    4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,

    You keep running afoul of the same principle over and over again just as Calvinism has lead you to eisegete Heb 10 in error.

    It is obvious to even the most casual reader that you are making a mistake for which even you have no answer.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     
  16. savedbymercy

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    Keep running from the Truth !
     
  17. BobRyan

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    And your response to the many texts and obvious fact above where your abuse of Heb 10 is shown to be in disregard to that entire time principle of provision vs the unfolding events in real life??



    Not entirely unexpected at this point.
     
  18. savedbymercy

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    Keep running from the Truth ! What two accomplishments did Christ death have according to the OP ?
     
  19. steaver

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    I pointed this out to another Calvinist poster Icon when I asked him if God hated him while he was yet unsaved and living in his iniquity before God then loved him and saved him. He wouldn't answer either....did the Calvin two step...it's easy to get them dancing :smilewinkgrin:
     
  20. BobRyan

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    1John 2:2 "He is the Atoning Sacrifice for OUR sin and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE Word"

    Christ had to pay the debt of sin for all sins of all people of the whole world in all of time.

    Col 2 says that it is our "certificate of debt" that is nailed to the cross.

    The debt we owe as sinners.

    Thus it is the certificate of debt -- "for OUR sin and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE Word" 1 John 2:2 that is nailed to the cross.

    In Lev 16 God Himself describes for us the process of "Atonement" and part of that is the work of Christ as the "Sin offering" where the Atoning Sacrifice is made which is then FOLLOWED by the work of Christ as High Priest.

    In Heb 8:1-2 Paul tells us WHEN that work began. IN Heb 9 and in Heb 4 Paul states that the High Priestly work of Christ in heaven 'for us' - is still ongoing. The thing most feared in Calvinism.

    in Christ,

    Bob
     

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