Performance Guidelines for "Lordship" Salvation

I think there is a wrong assumption being made about McArthur here. That assumption is that all he is saying is required to be done to be saved, can and must be done by man in his unregenerated state.

 

I don't understand his stance that way at all. I take MacArthur to believe that you cannot say that Jesus is your Saviour if He is not also your Lord. As I wrote in post 45 on the thread "Feeding the Sheep or Amusing the Goats":

If the term "Lordship Salvation" is another way of saying that it is impossible for someone to have Jesus as their Saviour without also having Him as their Lord, then I too believe in it. But if it means anything more than that, I would have to review that belief.


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I did not imagine that MacArthur was making obedience to Christ a prerequisite for salvation. If he did mean that, he would have a great problem with his own church's doctrinal statement, which includes the following (empheses mine):

SALVATION​

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We teach that salvation is wholly of God by grace on the basis of the redemption of Jesus Christ, the merit of His shed blood, and not on the basis of human merit or works (John 1:12; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-10; 1 Peter 1:18-19).


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Regeneration ​

We teach that regeneration is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit by which the divine nature and divine life are given (John 3:3-7; Titus 3:5). It is instantaneous and is accomplished solely by the power of the Holy Spirit through the instrumentality of the Word of God (John 5:24) when the repentant sinner, as enabled by the Holy Spirit, responds in faith to the divine provision of salvation.​

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The good works are evidences of salvation, as the Grace Community Church doctrinal statement continues:​

Genuine regeneration is manifested by fruits worthy of repentance as demonstrated in righteous attitudes and conduct. Good works are the proper evidence and fruit of regeneration (1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Ephesians 2:10), and will be experienced to the extent that the believer submits to the control of the Holy Spirit in his life through faithful obedience to the Word of God (Ephesians 5:17-21; Philippians 2:12b; Colossians 3:16; 2 Peter 1:4-10). This obedience causes the believer to be increasingly conformed to the image of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18). Such a conformity is climaxed in the believer’s glorification at Christ’s coming (Romans 8:17; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:2-3).​

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It would perhaps be helpful to see the things you are talking about in MacArthur's own words. At the moment, all we have from him are the words “salvation begins…” , “submission”, and “good works” . All the rest (as I understand it) are the words of Dr. J. B. Hixson. And that is in spite of your (?) words: "as expressed by Dr. John MacArthur, " and "the above quote by MacArthur". Sorry, but I couldn't see any quote from MacArthur, apart from “salvation begins…” , “submission”, and “good works” . To take those 5 words and say that MacArthur believes in a gospel of works is like looking in someone's food cupboard, seeing flour, milk and eggs among the contents, and coming to the conclusion the the person must like pancakes!

 

Thanks, Lou, that is a bit clearer. But what do you mean by "for" in your phrase, "for salvation"? If you mean "in order to obtain", I still don't think that MacArthur believes or teaches that. He does teach that if a person has been saved, the evidence of this will be seen in a changed, though far-from-perfect, life. In other words, from what I have seen of his writings, (which I freely admit, is not much), he would call for the saved man to show the genuineness his love for the Lord Jesus Christ by seeking to live in obedience to Him. This is an outworking of what Jesus said to His first disciples in John 14.15: "If you love Me, keep my commandments."

 

John Mc'Arthur simply understands that eternal salvation is vastly different from gospel salvation, something that many preachers of today's pop gospels do not grasp.
Eternal salvation requires NOTHING from the believer. Gospel salvation does. The latter requires faith and a dedication to the One they call Master in order for them to be effective disciples here on earth. However, not all beneficiaries of the eternal redemption and salvation authored by Christ will submit themselves to the gospel call, neither will all of these elect children of God hear the gospel in their lifetime, and some will even fall prey to false gospels, but ALL will eventually be in Heaven because that is the Father's will for them.

 

Thanks Pinoy. I must admit that I had never before heard of this idea of there being two salvations. I have not come across MacArthur saying that gospel salvation is different from eternal salvation, either. I have been back to his church's web site, and searched the doctrinal statement, but was unable to find even a hint of such an idea. Do you have a source for MacArthur believing that "eternal salvation is vastly different from gospel salvation"? Thanks.

 

David Lamb

I notice you are getting your information from MacArthur's website. That is the right thing to do.

MacArthur does not believe or teach what some are saying.

The key, I think, is the disagreement over regeneration. Since some do not believe (as MacArthur does) that Holy Spirit regenerates a person prior to saving faith, they take his comments concerning commitment out of context; applying their own beliefs concerning regeneration to MacArthur's comments concerning commitment.

Of course, they don't have to agree with MacArthur.

They are being intellectually dishonest, however, by not accurately stating what MacArthur believes and teaches and then comparing him to well-known heretics.

peace to youraying:

 

For anyone interested in finding out what John MacArthur believes and teaches, just go to his website.

http://www.gty.org/

peace to youraying:

 

You don't do a good job of moderating Lou.One person said :"... how tragiclly (sic) devoid of the Spirit this man [ MacArthur ] truly is."

You allow this type of comment to stand?!

 

OK, if anyone is interested in knowing what John MacArthur believes and teaches, go to his website and order his books.

You will get all the quotes in context.

You don't have to agree, but you will clearly see that Lou Martuneac is being intellectually dishonest when accuses MacArthur of teaching salvation by works.

peace to youraying:

 

The very idea that you can summarize what MacArthur teaches about Lordship Salvation on a single page, and then call it "irrefutible" evidence of anything is nonsense.

Lou Martuneac, could you answer the following question for me please? You quoted the following earlier..

You have claimed that MacArthur teaches that "wholehearted commitment" and "unconditional surrender" and the rest are required of the person to be "born again", or "regenerated".

Here, MacArthur clearly identifies "wholehearted commitment" and "unconditional surrender" and "desire for Him" and "exchange of self for Savior" as a RESPONSE to something.

Would you please show us from MacArthur's book exactly what that person is RESPONDING to?

Is that person responding to Holy Spirit? Is that person responding to the work of Holy Spirit in regeneration? Is that person responding to the work of Holy Spirit in conviction? In drawing?

If you could show us the context, and show us from MacArthur's book exactly what the person is RESPONDING to, it might shed some light on what MacArthur believes and teaches.

peace to youraying: