Performance Guidelines for "Lordship" Salvation

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Lou Martuneac, Jun 30, 2008.

  1. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac
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    Following is another example of Lordship Salvation as expressed by Dr. John MacArthur, but this time from outside his major apologetics, such as The Gospel According to Jesus.
    Dr. MacArthur is stating what he believes are necessary requirements to be born again. The use of phrases such as, “salvation begins…” confirms this. His Lordship message to the lost is that for salvation they must make an up-front commitment of absolute “submission” to live in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. John MacArthur’s Lordship Salvation conditions the free gift of God on a commitment to performance of the “good works” (Eph. 2:10) expected of a born again disciple of Christ.

    In his new book, Getting the Gospel Wrong Dr. J. B. Hixson (Executive Director of the Free Grace Alliance) addressed the above quote by MacArthur. Hixson’s response is found under a chapter titled, The Performance Gospel, pp. 304-5.
    There are numerous examples, such as the one here from John MacArthur, that remove any doubt that Lordship Salvation is a man centered message that frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21).


    LM
     
  2. jcjordan

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    I think there is a wrong assumption being made about McArthur here. That assumption is that all he is saying is required to be done to be saved, can and must be done by man in his unregenerated state.
     
  3. David Lamb

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    I don't understand his stance that way at all. I take MacArthur to believe that you cannot say that Jesus is your Saviour if He is not also your Lord. As I wrote in post 45 on the thread "Feeding the Sheep or Amusing the Goats":
    If the term "Lordship Salvation" is another way of saying that it is impossible for someone to have Jesus as their Saviour without also having Him as their Lord, then I too believe in it. But if it means anything more than that, I would have to review that belief.


    I did not imagine that MacArthur was making obedience to Christ a prerequisite for salvation. If he did mean that, he would have a great problem with his own church's doctrinal statement, which includes the following (empheses mine):


    SALVATION




    We teach that salvation is wholly of God by grace on the basis of the redemption of Jesus Christ, the merit of His shed blood, and not on the basis of human merit or works (John 1:12; Ephesians 1:7; 2:8-10; 1 Peter 1:18-19).





    Regeneration




    We teach that regeneration is a supernatural work of the Holy Spirit by which the divine nature and divine life are given (John 3:3-7; Titus 3:5). It is instantaneous and is accomplished solely by the power of the Holy Spirit through the instrumentality of the Word of God (John 5:24) when the repentant sinner, as enabled by the Holy Spirit, responds in faith to the divine provision of salvation.



    The good works are evidences of salvation, as the Grace Community Church doctrinal statement continues:



    Genuine regeneration is manifested by fruits worthy of repentance as demonstrated in righteous attitudes and conduct. Good works are the proper evidence and fruit of regeneration (1 Corinthians 6:19-20; Ephesians 2:10), and will be experienced to the extent that the believer submits to the control of the Holy Spirit in his life through faithful obedience to the Word of God (Ephesians 5:17-21; Philippians 2:12b; Colossians 3:16; 2 Peter 1:4-10). This obedience causes the believer to be increasingly conformed to the image of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 3:18). Such a conformity is climaxed in the believer’s glorification at Christ’s coming (Romans 8:17; 2 Peter 1:4; 1 John 3:2-3).



    It would perhaps be helpful to see the things you are talking about in MacArthur's own words. At the moment, all we have from him are the words “salvation begins…” , “submission”, and “good works” . All the rest (as I understand it) are the words of Dr. J. B. Hixson. And that is in spite of your (?) words: "as expressed by Dr. John MacArthur, " and "the above quote by MacArthur". Sorry, but I couldn't see any quote from MacArthur, apart from “salvation begins…” , “submission”, and “good works” . To take those 5 words and say that MacArthur believes in a gospel of works is like looking in someone's food cupboard, seeing flour, milk and eggs among the contents, and coming to the conclusion the the person must like pancakes!
     
    #3 David Lamb, Jun 30, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 30, 2008
  4. Lou Martuneac

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    Dave:

    I try to be clear that IMO MacArthur does not demand the actual peformance of good works, obedience to Christ for the reception of salvation. What he does call for is the lost man to make a commitment to live in obedience to Christ for salvation.

    Thanks for the note,


    LM
     
  5. David Lamb

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    Thanks, Lou, that is a bit clearer. But what do you mean by "for" in your phrase, "for salvation"? If you mean "in order to obtain", I still don't think that MacArthur believes or teaches that. He does teach that if a person has been saved, the evidence of this will be seen in a changed, though far-from-perfect, life. In other words, from what I have seen of his writings, (which I freely admit, is not much), he would call for the saved man to show the genuineness his love for the Lord Jesus Christ by seeking to live in obedience to Him. This is an outworking of what Jesus said to His first disciples in John 14.15: "If you love Me, keep my commandments."
     
  6. pinoybaptist

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    John Mc'Arthur simply understands that eternal salvation is vastly different from gospel salvation, something that many preachers of today's pop gospels do not grasp.
    Eternal salvation requires NOTHING from the believer. Gospel salvation does. The latter requires faith and a dedication to the One they call Master in order for them to be effective disciples here on earth. However, not all beneficiaries of the eternal redemption and salvation authored by Christ will submit themselves to the gospel call, neither will all of these elect children of God hear the gospel in their lifetime, and some will even fall prey to false gospels, but ALL will eventually be in Heaven because that is the Father's will for them.
     
  7. David Lamb

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    Thanks Pinoy. I must admit that I had never before heard of this idea of there being two salvations. I have not come across MacArthur saying that gospel salvation is different from eternal salvation, either. I have been back to his church's web site, and searched the doctrinal statement, but was unable to find even a hint of such an idea. Do you have a source for MacArthur believing that "eternal salvation is vastly different from gospel salvation"? Thanks.
     
  8. Lou Martuneac

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    LS Promise of Performance Message

    David:

    JM does teach that a genuine conversion will result in genuine results.

    He does, however, demand a commitment to the “good works” (Eph. 2:10) expected of a born again child of God to be born again. This is a irrefutable fact of his teaching which is found and documented in his own Lordship Salvation (LS) books, especially The Gospel According to Jesus and Hard to Believe.

    LS blends and blurs in the line of distinction between salvation and discipleship. For the reception of eternal life they require a commitment of submission to live in obedience to the Lord's commands to be born again. 



    The LS idea of the Gospel is to gain a promise of performance from the unsaved in exchange for the promise of eternal life from the Lord Jesus Christ.

    If you want an example of MacArthur’s works-based LS message of commitment in exchange for salvation, may I suggest you read a new article I just published?

    Summary of Lordship Salvation on a Single Page

    Kind regards,


    LM
     
  9. canadyjd

    canadyjd
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    David Lamb

    I notice you are getting your information from MacArthur's website. That is the right thing to do.

    MacArthur does not believe or teach what some are saying.

    The key, I think, is the disagreement over regeneration. Since some do not believe (as MacArthur does) that Holy Spirit regenerates a person prior to saving faith, they take his comments concerning commitment out of context; applying their own beliefs concerning regeneration to MacArthur's comments concerning commitment.

    Of course, they don't have to agree with MacArthur.

    They are being intellectually dishonest, however, by not accurately stating what MacArthur believes and teaches and then comparing him to well-known heretics.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  10. Lou Martuneac

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    David/All:

    Canadydj, who has previously acknowledged NEVER having read any of MacArthur’s major LS apologetics, asks us to come to conclusions based on what MacArthur writes on LS. That is a fair request.

    Let’s put what MacArthur has written to the test. We will, as I always do, let him state for himself what he believes is the content of the faith that results in the reception of eternal life. On page 250 of his latest edition of The Gospel According to Jesus he wrote,

    This is the passage Dr. MacArthur refers to the things in James 4:7-10 as the “invitation to salvation,” and he directs this message to the unsaved.

    MacArthur says that the “invitation to salvation,” i.e., the way for the unsaved to be born again is through submission, resisting, fleeing… Is this the Gospel of grace through faith?

    Read- Summary of Lordship Salvation on a Single Page for a complete review of this teaching from John MacArthur.

    The classic error of MacArthur’s Lordship Salvation is blurring and blending the lines of distinction between salvation and discipleship.

    He, as all LS advocates do, demand from the unsaved a promise to performance of the “good works” expected of a disciple in “exchange” for salvation.


    LM
     
  11. canadyjd

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    For anyone interested in finding out what John MacArthur believes and teaches, just go to his website.

    http://www.gty.org/

    peace to you:praying:
     
  12. Lou Martuneac

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    His Books Tell His Story

    I find it ironic that canadyjd, who has never read any of MacArthur’s books on Lordship Salvation, will only point to the web site as if that is sum total of everything John MacArthur (JM) believes on the Gospel.

    JM has released three editions of his major apologetic The Gospel According to Jesus. A reviewer who wants the whole picture would read those books to find exactly what it is the MacArthur believes in the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

    In that book you find examples such as.

    In Hard to Believe MacArthur wrote:
    LM
     
  13. Rippon

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  14. Lou Martuneac

    Lou Martuneac
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  15. Lou Martuneac

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  16. Rippon

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    You don't do a good job of moderating Lou.One person said :"... how tragiclly (sic) devoid of the Spirit this man [ MacArthur ] truly is."

    You allow this type of comment to stand?!
     
  17. canadyjd

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    OK, if anyone is interested in knowing what John MacArthur believes and teaches, go to his website and order his books.

    You will get all the quotes in context.

    You don't have to agree, but you will clearly see that Lou Martuneac is being intellectually dishonest when accuses MacArthur of teaching salvation by works.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  18. Lou Martuneac

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    If the poster emant that JM does not have the indwelling Holy Spirit (unsaved) I would disgaeree with that. IMO, he is born again, but has gone off into a false interpretation of the Gospel, which is clearly evident when you read his major books on LS.

    An honest reviewer would read JM's books if he wanted to know and understand what his views are.


    LM
     
  19. Lou Martuneac

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    Th following article takes a page from John MacArthur's latest edition of TGATJ and shows that his LS message is irrefutibly a works-based, man-centered, non-saving message that frustrates grace (Gal. 2:21).

    Summary of Lordship Salvation on a Single Page


    LM
     
  20. canadyjd

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    The very idea that you can summarize what MacArthur teaches about Lordship Salvation on a single page, and then call it "irrefutible" evidence of anything is nonsense.

    Lou Martuneac, could you answer the following question for me please? You quoted the following earlier..
    You have claimed that MacArthur teaches that "wholehearted commitment" and "unconditional surrender" and the rest are required of the person to be "born again", or "regenerated".

    Here, MacArthur clearly identifies "wholehearted commitment" and "unconditional surrender" and "desire for Him" and "exchange of self for Savior" as a RESPONSE to something.

    Would you please show us from MacArthur's book exactly what that person is RESPONDING to?

    Is that person responding to Holy Spirit? Is that person responding to the work of Holy Spirit in regeneration? Is that person responding to the work of Holy Spirit in conviction? In drawing?

    If you could show us the context, and show us from MacArthur's book exactly what the person is RESPONDING to, it might shed some light on what MacArthur believes and teaches.

    peace to you:praying:
     

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