Pet Peeve about Baptists

Discussion in '2000-02 Archive' started by ScottEmerson, Sep 30, 2002.

  1. ScottEmerson

    ScottEmerson
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    I am becoming more and more upset about the use of such phrases as, "Have you asked Jesus to come into your heart," "Jesus lives in my heart," and even the hymn, "Since Jesus Came into My Heart."

    Christ is seated on the right hand of God. It is the Spirit that indwells within us - not Jesus.

    Can Arminians and Calvinists agree on this and work with the clergy in our church to change this statement which is so obviously false?
     
  2. Rev. G

    Rev. G
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    In reality Calvinists have been arguing against the usage of these terms for a very long time. So, the question should be pointed towards Arminians. A starting point may be for Arminians to give up Rev. 3:20 an "evangelistic" text "proving" that Jesus is "knocking on the door of the heart."

    Rev. G
     
  3. tyndale1946

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    "AMEN"... Rev G... Brother Glen [​IMG]
     
  4. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Just a quick survey of Scripture should put to rest the charge that "Christ in us" is unbiblical.

    Colossians 1:27 to whom God willed to make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

    Romans 8:10 If Christ is in you, though the body is dead because of sin, yet the spirit is alive because of righteousness.

    Ephesians 3:17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

    Of course many problems would be easily answered by a view of Scripture but I realize that not all will so readily agree. This phrase is not clearly unbiblical. It is clear what the meaning of it is and the intent of the phrase is not wrong though it may not be the best way to put it. We have much bigger problems than what phrase is used to describe it ... problems like aberrant theology about God and salvation that need to be dealt with. This, IMO, is a side issue with no real relevance to the topics at hand. When Scripture says that Christ is in us, that should be all that needs to be said.

    Why isn't it?
     
  5. Rev. G

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    Why don't we use "biblical" terms in our evangelism, the same terms used by the Early Church when they did evangelism? Terms such as:
    repent, believe, faith, trust, etc.? Nowhere in the Scriptures are we called to "ask Jesus into our hearts" (or anything similar to that).

    I agree with you brother, there are "bigger" issues with which me must deal (aberrant theology, etc.), but I still think this is worthy of discussion.

    Rev. G
     
  6. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
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  7. Rev. G

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    Weeping Prophet:

    Careful! There is a sense in which you can't separate the members of the Trinity, and a sense in which you must separate the members of the Trinity. The Father is not the Son, the Father is not the Spirit, the Son is not the Spirit. I'd encourage you to do just a little study, and perhaps we can have a friendly discussion on the theology page (as opposed to the vitriolic discussion of "Oneness vs. Trinity").

    Rev. G
     
  8. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
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    I understand what you are saying Rev.G. Like I can't ascribe to the Father, that He died on the cross. Right? I will study, but help me understand and I will be wiser. I believe it might be too deep for me. in Christ
     
  9. Primitive Baptist

    Primitive Baptist
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    Jesus, speaking of the Holy Ghost, said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." [Jn. 14:18]

    Jesus said that HE would come to them. :eek:
     
  10. weeping prophet

    weeping prophet
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    O.K. I did a little study, and I think that this can be solved by one word "Omnipresence". Although each member of the Trinity has different offices and works, yet when one member is present so is all three. Correct?
     
  11. weeping prophet

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    Now when someone ask Jesus into their heart, if they ask from their heart, then does'nt that presuppose faith in Christ? Would God deny that prayer of faith simply because their theology was off. Would'nt He then give His Spirit.See my point. While at the same time I agree with Rev.G. Why not use more scriptural terms. Faith cometh by hearing, not our misleading terms, but the Word of God. in Christ
     
  12. Eladar

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    Now when someone ask Jesus into their heart, if they ask from their heart, then does'nt that presuppose faith in Christ?

    I guess that would be dependant upon the "Jesus Christ" the person has been exposed to.
     
  13. ScottEmerson

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    I think we get a clear picture of this in the following verse: "But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you." The Holy SPirit does come in the name of Christ, but it is not Jesus who comes and lives in our heart.

    Acts 7:55
    But Stephen, full of the Holy Spirit, looked up to heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God.

    We've got all three members of the Trinity: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Notice where everyone is?

    Romans 8:34
    Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died–more than that, who was raised to life–is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.

    Colossians 3:1
    Since, then, you have been raised with Christ, set your hearts on things above, where Christ is seated at the right hand of God.

    Christ is physically at the right hand of God.

    Hebrews 12:2
    Let us fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy set before him endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

    Sat down - not sat for a spell and then cam back to come into the hearts of men.

    1 Peter 3:22
    who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand–with angels, authorities and powers in submission to him.

    Peter agrees.

    I think it is important to understand the Trinity; however, I do not think that if a person asks Jesus to come into their heart they will not be saved. People get saved with stranger theology than that, such as Calvinists (sorry for the low blow, but it is kinda funny)
     
  14. Pastor Larry

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    The ease with which you dismiss Scripture never ceases to amaze me. Scripture plainly and explicitly says that Christ is in us. On what basis do you disagree??
     
  15. Rev. G

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    Exactly, because He (the Father) didn't die on the cross (nor did the Holy Spirit). Only the Son did.

    The confusion tends to come because we, finite human beings, have thoughts which are confined to our own experience. God is one in essence. He is one in Being. He is not one in person.

    My time is limited today, but I will plan on placing a new post in the next day or so.

    Rev. G

    P. S. (By the way guys, you might ask "how" Christ dwells in our hearts.... Isn't it "by faith"? You may want to concentrate on what that means.) ;)
     
  16. ScottEmerson

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    The ease with which you dismiss Scripture never ceases to amaze me. Scripture plainly and explicitly says that Christ is in us. On what basis do you disagree??</font>[/QUOTE]And yet you dismiss the six or seven passages that state that Christ is physically in heaven sitting on the right hand of God, as you do the passages that state that the Holy Spirit is the one that fills the man. I would maintain that "Christ dwells in your heart" is akin to "Thy Word have I hid in my heart." It's not the actual person nor the actual scroll that is hidden in the heart. You cannot deny the Scriptures that state as plain as day that Christ is in heaven right now, even interceding for us. You cannot deny that the Holy Spirit is the one that indwells in us and "fills" us.

    How then can you make the case, honestly, that Jesus Christ comes into our heart?

    More specifically, where would you say Jesus Christ is right now? Where is the Holy Spirit?
     
  17. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    I have dismissed neither. I have simply pointed out that Scripture explicitly denies your conclusion. That's all. You cannot simply look over it. Your explanation doesn't really work because the actual word is in our heart ...

    I do not deny that Christ is in heaven. Neither do I deny that the Holy Spirit indwells us. But I cannot deny the plain text of Scripture that says that Christ is in us and in our hearts.

    Because Scripture makes that case.

    According to Scripture, in heaven and in us, for both of them. Why do you deny what Scripture affirms?
     
  18. Eladar

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    I do not deny that Christ is in heaven. Neither do I deny that the Holy Spirit indwells us. But I cannot deny the plain text of Scripture that says that Christ is in us and in our hearts.

    Perhaps there is a non-literal truth here that is being over looked. It seems to me that this question could be seen the same way that the bread we eat and wine (or grape juice) we drink at communion isn't literally Jesus' flesh and blood.
     
  19. Pastor Larry

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    I don't disagree with this at all which is why I say it is not that big of an issue. But to say that Christ is not in us is not in line with what Scripture says.
     
  20. Helen

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    I have a different objection to the 'have you invited Christ into your heart' bit, actually. That makes it all sound so easy and painless when, in fact, 'easy and painless' could not be farther from the truth.

    "Have you let Christ kill you and give you a new life?" might express a little more clearly what happens.

    Just as God the Father created through God the Son, God the Son re-creates through God the Holy Spirit, and since we are the creatIONS and not the creatORS, I do not think there is any way we will ever be able to comprehend the reality of the Trinity while in the body and stuck in our time/space/mass lives....

    [​IMG]

    So maybe arguing about 'who' is 'where' gets a little silly, or at least confusing to those who are reading?
     

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